Grilling JR - Edge [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Big news in AEW at the end of Wrestle Dream - Adam Copeland - the Rated R Superstar - is now All Elite! Big news is it not?

The shout out from Edge during his promo during Collision - it’s a special bond with this man isn’t it?

Today we will discuss his career!

Sexton Hardcastle is the name Adam Copeland gained his biggest notoriety on the independent scene early on - but it’s his friendship with Jay Reso - also known as Christian Cage - that he really grew up with - how much have you talked with those two about their childhood together?

Adam won an essay contest to be trained by Sweet Daddy Siki. JR - what can you tell us about Sweet Daddy Siki?

Sexton Hardcastle got his WWF debut shot on a house show in Hamilton, Ontario as an enhancement talent putting over Bob Holly on May 10th, 1996 - and Copeland credits Carl DeMarco as the person who was able to put him in that spot.

A lot to discuss there - chat me up about Carl Demarco and his role in the WWF and what you did with him or worked with him?

Did Carl ever promote or discuss talent with you?

At this point, had you heard of Adam Copeland?

Are you involved in talent relations at this point with JJ? To put this into perspective - we are 9 days away from the Curtain Call…

The process for Edge to come into the WWF - according to his book - is when Bret Hart goes down with a knee injury in 1997 and Carl DeMarco reaches out to him and let’s him know that he should go to Calgary and work in front of Bret Hart at the Dungeon - and Edge writes that Bret told him he was going to talk to you about him! What can you tell us about that conversation with Bret and how often did you & Bret discuss talents?

From Edge’s book: “I called Carl at World Wrestling Federation’s Canadian offices. Carl told me J.R. had a contract with my name on it waiting to be signed in Stamford, Connecticut. The news didn’t sink in. I know it’s a cliché, but I couldn’t believe my ears. It was mind-boggling.”

When Bret gives the thumbs up - what more do you need to know?

Edge goes to camp where he’ll have matches against Tom Prichard & Michael Hayes and get evaluated. How important were these camps in finding talent?

Do you remember what Tom & Hayes said to you regarding Edge?

Edge wrote this in his book: “I was called to J.R.’s office, and even after my brutal weeklong performance, he had a developmental contract waiting for me. J.R. told me the sky was the limit, it was up to me. He told me to take the contract, get a lawyer to look at it, and send it back. I took it to my hotel, signed it, and brought it back the next day. Most people would call me a dumb ass (most still do), but I was twenty-three and this was my dream. My developmental deal was worth $210 US a week or $300 Canadian. Not the numbers that were in my dream, but I had to start somewhere.”

Edge has also said in later years that the WWE actually paid his remaining balance of $40,000 for his university…what did this type of investment mean the company thought of him?

He would also say that you recommended that until creative had something for him - to take as many indie dates as possible. That is not the world we live in nowadays is it?

Edge had one more shot in 1997 as Sexton Hardcastle - but it’s the night after the Montreal Screwjob on that Raw from Ottawa - that couldn’t have been an easy night to work there the night after Bret was screwed by the WWF…

It took a year for him from the time he signed his contract to get called back to go to the Funkin Dojo in Stamford. This is the infamous dojo with Glenn Kulka, Kurrgan, Ahmed Johnson, Tiger Ali Singh, Darren Drozdov, Mark Henry, Shawn Stasiak, Marc Mero, Taka Michinoku, Matt Bloom & Sean Morley. Edge describes this as a do or die moment for some of this talent…and without a true developmental system this is the judge of talent they had at the time. Was it make or break for guys like Edge?

Copeland & Morley were the standouts and it seemed like the creative end of things, Bruce Prichard specifically, saw something in them and it was time to get them on TV. When does creative tell you it’s time to get this guy signed to a real full-time contract?

At the end of 97 Copeland would put over Glenn Kulka in Ontario on a house show. Glenn Kulka is always a big what if in WWF lore - came from the CFL - highly recruited by Bret Hart - what happened to him and why didn’t it happen for him?

In 98 he would work some dark matches while creative is still working on an idea, a gimmick, anything. Why do you think it took so long to get Copeland something?

The gimmick ends up being a tortured soul - and as he wrote in his book - “I had no clue what the hell that meant, and I really don’t think anyone else did either. My vignettes involved me running around the streets of New York beating people up. I went to a studio and recited poetry to play over the vignettes. It definitely wasn’t me, and I felt uncomfortable doing it. After this my spoken poetry was left on the cutting room floor, and I wouldn’t talk on TV for another year. Rumors abounded that I would become a deaf-mute wrestler. Talk about the final nail in the coffin before I even got started.”

I know this is the Attitude era and everyone fondly remembers this time as the creative peak - but this is a throw him into the deep end and let him figure it out type situation isn’t it?

Is that a disservice to Copeland and other wrestlers when creative is like that?

We both know he would go on to be one of the great talkers of the 2000s and the fact he didn’t talk for a year - shows there was a miss somewhere was there not?

He even wrote in his book that he came up with the name Edge while riding in a car with Don Callis and listening to a radio station announce itself as Edge. So not even the guy from U2 inspired the name - but it does end up being a really cool name doesn’t it?

The Vignettes would begin - ironically - during the build to Over the Edge - which sounds silly when you think about it - promoting a wrestler named Edge while the pay-per-view is named Over the Edge - but he’d start to work people like Buddy Landel & Kevin Quinn in dark matches before his actual TV debut. What did you think of what you saw as this new Brooding character?

Edge would be the first of these types of characters before the professional wrestling world was seemingly overtaken by them, before the Gangrel’s, Christian’s, even the Hardys. Do you think this was just a change in era and society or do you think Edge ushered this type of character into the mainstream WWE world?

For weeks, Edge would be shown on Raw watching from the crowd, and when he finally made his television debut on a taped Raw, aired on June 22nd, 1998 he would make his entrance to the ring through the crowd - but the debut didn't quite go to plan. His opponent was Jose Estrada Jr. of Los Boricuas, with the match ending prematurely when Edge performed a somersault senton from the ring to the floor, legit injuring Estrada’s neck.

JR - are you ringside for this? It’s got to be an unnerving moment for this young man in his first televised match…

From Edge’s book:

“I had a feeling throughout the day that he wasn’t cool with the fact that he was putting me over. Knowing what I do now, I know he wasn’t cool with it. The finish was supposed to be my downward spiral, one-two-three, and a nice debut for Edge. Instead, I knocked Estrada out with a hilo to the floor. After Timmy White told me he was on dream street I was visibly shaken.

I won by a countout and left back through the crowd with J.R. announcing what an inauspicious debut Edge had made. Wow, thanks for the morale booster. Just what I needed to hear at that point.”

Looking back - would this have been better served not airing?

He would go on to write in his book that it destroyed the confidence he had built. This could be an issue not just for himself - but for others in the locker room could it not?

He would continue to work on the likes of Shotgun and Sunday Night Heat - but was there some hesitation on putting him on live TV in a match after what happened?

He would go back to the Funkin Dojo - even while on TV - wrestling the likes of Andrew Martin & Christian Cage - was this when you first learned of the relationship between Edge & Christian?

Edge wrote that he would pester Jim Cornette constantly to get Christian at least a shot. How much influence did Cornette have in Christian coming in?

We will talk a lot more about Christian next year - but when you think about all the talent that came into the company in 1998 - it really set the tone for at least the next 10 years of the WWE didn’t it?

Out of nowhere - Edge would make both his pay-per-view and Madison Square Garden debut being Sable’s mystery partner against Marc Mero & Jacquline at SummerSlam. The pairing of Edge & Sable - it fit a spot for Edge to be highlighted but it didn’t really gel did it?

Getting the nerves down had to be paramount for him to get back on track did it not?

He would be signed to a five-year deal - was this a result of putting him on TV at the time and on pay-per-view?

Why was a 5 year deal a typical deal back then?

Coming off SummerSlam - at BreakDown - which is the first pay-per-view for Edge to be a part of in Canada - he would take on Owen Hart. When you think about what could’ve been in the future - Edge vs. Owen Hart - hell of a match wasn’t it?

Christian would debut that night and cause Edge to lose and it would be revealed that Christian was his brother. This would begin Christian & Gangrel attempting to recruit Edge to join the dark side.

As the story was going on - Edge would be tasked in defeating Vader on Sunday Night Heat in Vader’s last match with the company. If there’s someone he could’ve put over - why not Edge right JR?

Just a few weeks into the story - Edge out of nowhere helps Gangrel & Christian attack Kane and the Brood was born.

Edge’s book:

“The Brood was a modern-day version of the movie The Lost Boys. Our music kicked ass (the New Jersey Devils still use it today). Our entrance, in my humble opinion, ranks up there with the coolest I’ve ever seen. The crowd quickly latched on to us. Brood merchandise was made and quickly sold. It felt like we were off and running. We all watched the movie Blade together and used the idea to “bloodbath” our opponents. It was a strange, but effective concept, and once again the fans dug it.”

What did you think of the Brood and the three of them together?

Is the Gangrel/Brood entrance one of the best you’ve ever seen?

Edge was part of one of the worst angles in WWF history. He was teaming with Gangrel taking on Animal & Droz - the new LOD - when Hawk would climb up the titan tron and Droz would chase after him and push him off it…not the peak of the Attitude Era was that story was it JR?

From there - the Brood transitioned into joining the Corporate Ministry. Was it easy for them to get lost in a group headed by the Undertaker?

Edge was part of another infamous moment - his WrestleMania debut - where Gangrel, Edge & Christian would come from the roof of the First Union Center in Philadelphia to help tie a noose around Big Boss Man’s neck after his Hell in a Cell match with the Undertaker and have him rise to the ceiling…quite the Mania debut for those men wasn’t it?

Edge & Christian would begin to work the Hardy boys on house shows along with other tag teams such as the New Age Outlaws and even Owen Hart & Jeff Jarrett. What made Edge & Christian such a good tag team early on?

Up until this point, Edge had never been given the chance to do a promo or interview on camera. This all changed when Dok Hendrix interviewed the Brood on the pilot episode of SmackDown in April 1999.

Edge’s book:

“Everyone was given a chance to talk except Jay. Someone obviously didn’t think he was up to it. Of course, as you’ve seen over the last five years, they were wrong. Michael Hayes (as Dok Hendrix) was our interviewer. He wore the most god-awful pastel yellow slacks and silk dress shirt combination I had ever seen.

Michael asked Gangrel a question. He stammered his way to an answer. He was very uncomfortable with the microphone in his hand and it showed. Michael then asked Jay a question, which was returned with complete silence. Now, it was my turn. I had been mentally preparing a long time for my first shot at a promo. At this point I knew if I sucked we would not be talking for a very long time, and those deaf-mute rumors might start again. Vince Russo had given me some Shakespearean-like promo full of hath’s and thou’s. I didn’t want to sound like Thor, so I came up with some ideas of my own. Reciting exactly what someone else has written sounds like you are doing just that.

I was very happy with my promo that night. It wasn’t stupendous, but it wasn’t horrible either. I came up with the final line, which I hoped could be our eventual tagline. “Beware, take care, because the freaks come out at night.” After which the lights went out and a pastel yellow leisure suit was mercifully put out of its misery by a bloodbath.

The ability to speak was such a big deal during the Attitude Era and as we would see in the future - he could talk…but here he says that reading scripts doesn’t help. Do you think that became obvious over time with Edge?

Edge would continue

“Little did I know that this promo would be the beginning of the end for the Brood. Looking for revenge, Michael dropped the Dok Hendrix gimmick, and took on the managerial services of a new, up-and-coming tag team known as the Hardy Boyz, Matt & Jeff. Jay and I had worked with the Hardys a few times and found that we had great chemistry together. The Brood vs. Michael Hayes & the Hardy Boyz would be the beginning of a beautiful wrestling relationship that would help to revitalize tag team wrestling.”

Is it fair to say that these two tag teams did just that?

Is it crazy to think that our friend Doot Doot Doot was attempting a wrestling comeback at this point?

Sadly - Edge is a part of Owen Hart’s last match in Chicago the night before Over the Edge where he would team with Christian and put over Owen & Jeff. Not a small deal for Edge was that?

Eventually Michael Hayes is replaced with Gangrel as he would form the New Brood and go against Edge & Christian - who were now on their own. Who was a better third for the Hardys, Gangrel or Michael Hayes?

Do you think all those men benefited though by working with Michael Hayes?

As the push would continue of Edge & Christian - for some reason there’s a shift where Edge is being set up for an intercontinental title match against Jeff Jarrett at the Fully Loaded pay-per-view. The night before though - at a house show at the SkyDome…Ken Shamrock had yet to arrive so the decision is made for Edge to take on Jarrett and change the titles for a rare house show title change.

From Edge’s book

Pat came up with “an ’ell of an idea”. I would win the match but not the title because I was not the contracted opponent.

I hit the ring like a gunshot. The match was on, and Jeff and I did our thing. Here comes the spear, the finish, the place goes apeshit! The problem arose when referee Earl Hebner handed the title back to Jeff and my hometown peeps were none too pleased. The announcement was made by Howard Finkel, and that just added fuel to the fire.

At this point our agent, Jack Lanza, came down to the ring. He asked Earl to find out from Jeff what our finish was the next day. It was relayed back that Jeff was indeed going over (at this point I was not privy to this type of information). I was standing beside Jack and Howard on the floor and I could tell Jack’s wheels were turning until he looked at me and said, “Go get your belt, Champ.” Huh?

Say What? “Go get your belt, Champ.” Are you serious? “Go get it.”

The official announcement was made. I’d grown up hearing Howard announce, “And the new Intercontinental Champion … ,” but it means so much more when he announces your name at the end of that sentence. It was amazing. I literally could not believe it because it was not supposed to happen. Jack called an audible, and I have to admit, he was right, although Jeff wasn’t too happy.”

Do you hear about this? Is there heat about this? Chat me up JR!

Of course the next night it went back to Jarrett and it was for only one night but still - that is Edge’s first title since joining the WWF and it being the Intercontiental Title - that was a big deal was it not?

The tag team division was probably the richest it had been in almost 10 years by September of 99 - as you not only had Edge & Christian, the Acolytes, the Hollys, the Hardys, and at the time the tag team champions were the Rock & Mankind - two of the biggest stars in the company. The Dudleys would debut with the company as well by attacking Edge, Christian & the Acolytes on Smackdown. Was focusing on tag team wrestling a talent relations goal by yourself?

At Unforgiven - the now tag team champions the New Age Outlaws took on Edge & Christian in their first shot at the tag team titles on pay-per-view. The Outlaws would get the win with the help from the Hardy Boyz but this would set the tone for what was about to begin…the Terri Invitational Tournament…or T.I.T…between the Hardys, Edge & Christian when Gangrel is moved away from both groups. It’s a best of 7 series between the teams which would lead to some tremendous tag matches. Is this as career defining for these four men as maybe the best of 7 series with Nikita & Magnum?

In October 1999, everyone really began to take notice of Edge & Christian and the Hardy Boyz following their ladder match at the No Mercy PPV from Cleveland. The Hardys would get the win, Terri & $100,000 but the four men that night were all winners as they received a standing ovation when the match was over and even the next night on Raw. When you’re at ringside calling this match - are you thinking - man these guys are killing themselves in this ladder match but they’re getting over?

This was a career defining moment for all them - but it definitely led to some long term injuries and situations for all 4 men eventually did it not?

Do you think the business changed that night?

It’s funny because after this - Edge & Christian are busy putting over Too Cool and would team more with the Hardys than face off with them…why do you think they pulled back on them so much?

It took until the Royal Rumble for the Dudleys to become big time players with their tables match victory over the Hardys and the path to WrestleMania was on. At No Way Out Edge & Christian would take on the Hardys in a #1 contender’s match while the Dudleys would defeat the New Age Outlaws to win the WWF Tag Team Titles and Terri turns on the Hardys which would force a 3-way at WrestleMania. The first ever 3-way tag ladder match in professional wrestling history. Were you worried about the safety of all these guys?

Edge credits in his book the fact that they were able to cut some funny heel commentary with you & the King in the build up to WrestleMania and it convinced Vince to hold off on having Christian turn on him and keep the team together. Sometimes - that’s all it takes doesn’t it?

This was the first WrestleMania match for all 6 guys - so this wasn’t to be taken lightly was it?

Even with the Ladder stipulation - it really was really the first TLC match because there were still chairs & tables in it - but what a match it was. From Jeff’s swanton, the final spot where Matt Hardy is flipped off through a table - but it was Edge & Christian standing victorious and the new heel tag team champions. JR - that night at WrestleMania and that match - set the tone for the rest of their careers did it not?

WrestleMania 2000 is well remembered because of that match - and if you had to scratch your head - the only other memorable thing was Mick Foley’s return and Vince turning on the Rock to rejoin Triple H & Stephanie as the main heels again. That ladder match is the highlight of that show looking back isn’t it?

All 6 men were highly elevated and the run of Edge & Christian was about to begin…how big a deal was Brian Gerwitz to the rise of this team?

Edge & Christian were about to find their niche as being the goofy guys with the big sunglasses, the five-second pose and reeking of awesomeness. How proud are you when watching Edge come through in all his opportunities?

Eventually Kurt Angle would become a major part of this and Team ECK would be some of the highlights of the Raw & Smackdowns in 2000 were they not?

We’re going to end it there JR but let’s talk about the impact Adam Copeland can have in AEW - he can help the brand and the promotion can he not?

Before he appeared in AEW - when was the last time you spoke with him?

Next week we will talk about Judgment Day 1998. 25 years ago at the Rosemont Horizon Steve Austin - after being double pinned at Breakdown by Undertaker & Kane would be the special guest referee in their match for the vacant WWF title…and we’ll also discuss one of the most memorable moments in WWF Raw is War history - the night Austin drove the zamboni into the arena! We would also see Austin in a hospital room with Vince after Mr. Socko & Yurple made their debut…also Goldust returns, Triple H has to vacate the IC title and a tournament is held to crown a new champion, Legion of Doom, Christian debuts, the Rock leaves the Nation and so much more!