Grilling JR - Unforgiven 2003 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Today we’re discussing WWE from 20 years ago as today is the anniversary of Unforgiven 2003 where you have a very rare match on pay-per-view.

Following SummerSlam 2003 where the key things on the show on the Raw side were:

-La Resistance retained their World Tag Title over the Dudley Boyz

-Kane defeated Rob Van Dam in a no holds barred match

-Jonathan Coachman turning heel and helping Eric Bischoff in his match vs Shane McMahon

-An injured HHH surprisingly retaining the World Title in an elimination chamber match vs Goldberg, Kevin Nash, Chris Jericho, Shawn Michaels and Randy Orton

Coming out of SummerSlam - with the way Goldberg was being booked - do you think it was a mistake that he didn’t win at SummerSlam?

The financial statement comes out for the quarterly investor report and its the first positive quarter for profits after 3 straight losing quarters. Now the reason for those quarters losing money was the shut down of WWE New York but it’s only a $2,650,000 profit in reality…where is the talent at with their pay at this point in time? Are they unhappy seeing money down from the top years or with the top of the roster turn over you have younger guys making smaller amounts?

The Raw after SummerSlam from Tucson draws what is written in the Observer as a terrible rating of a 4.2. Man times have changed huh?

The show is panned by Meltzer in the Observer…saying it reached the level of some of the worst Nitros in history. Let’s get into it…

“The opening segment wasn’t bad. Goldberg came out and was given a speaking role. HHH agreed to put up the title at the Unforgiven PPV if Goldberg agrees he’ll retire if he loses.

HHH attempted to bury everyone in this, as he pointed out Goldberg really isn’t that big (his whole illusion and why he’s over is he’s an unstoppable powerhouse) and wouldn’t sell for him. He also said it would have to be a real retirement, not going to Smackdown and challenging for the paper championship. Yeah, the paper champ is the guy who has great matches on every PPV.”

There’s been a ton of criticism for Goldberg’s role and being booked with Hunter in this way - but everyone thinks its Hunter…do you think it was Hunter booking Goldberg this way or just Vince?

Hunter is hurt and also coming up on his marriage to Stephanie…so this was just booked to make the best of a situation - but then again - wouldn’t it had made sense to have Goldberg defeat Hunter at SummerSlam?

“Austin was doing an interview when Bischoff came out. Bischoff said that Austin wasn’t physically provoked at SummerSlam and demanded Austin not interfere with his presentation of the employee of the month to Coachman. Wow, Austin is now down to doing interviews with B team announcers that go heel.”

Was there just - a lack of creative with Austin at this point? Was it worth getting him involved with Coachman?

“Conway & La Resistance beat Dudleys & Spike in 2:47 when Conway hit Bubba with a belt shot for the pin. Conway got no heat with his interview talking about how all Americans don’t think the French are bad and saying we should pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq and concentrate on our own problems.”

Rob Conway is not someone we talk about a lot - but man he felt like he could’ve been something. Where do you think it didn’t work?

“Highlight Reel was with the McMahon family. This was close to 20:00. Linda said Bischoff was a liar. Actually security threw Bischoff out and he made up the story completely. He’s slime. She wanted to fire him but knew Vince would rehire him. She was about to come up with punishment until Vince did the exaggerated duck walk and said Eric wasn’t getting punished at all. Not only that, but Eric went there under orders from him. Okay, let’s see them make sense out of this. Well, they didn’t try. Vince just said his marriage was a failure. Okay, then get a divorce and move on but let me see some wrestling.

Vince said he was the victim here, because he’s had to raise two children that came from her demon infested womb. Okay, that was funny. Somehow this had something to do with Kane, although I have no idea what. Linda wasn’t even hurt from the Kane tombstone.

Shane came out and went face-to-face with his father. Jericho would have none of that because his father is such a great man. So it set up Jericho vs. Shane for the main event. Jericho attacked Shane when Shane was about to punch Vince.”

We are coming off an angle where Eric Bischoff drove to Linda McMahon’s house to kiss her - and if you haven’t heard Eric discuss this - you need to over at 83 Weeks. But that angle is just super uncomfortable…what did you think of it?

“Randy Orton pinned Maven in 5:21 after a superkick. Maven was acting cockier than usual. This wasn’t a good match, but had a good finish as Orton refused to pin him after the RKO, and did the sweet chin music right in front of Michaels. Michaels had laid out Flair with it earlier, as Michaels came out with Maven. Michaels did great facials selling being pissed at Orton for using his move.”

Maven getting the rub here being with Shawn but this is the next step in the elevation of Randy Orton…and who else would it better with than Shawn?

“Bischoff called out Coachman, who taunted J.R. This got no heat, even though Coachman was pretty effective as a heel. Coachman wanted an apology from Austin. Good luck there. This thing was dying. Then Christian came out and complained he wasn’t on SummerSlam.

Finally Austin saved the day, flipping off Coach. Coach talked about how bad the Raw announcing team was. Lawler stood up and wanted to get at Coach. Somehow Austin took all this to decide Lawler would get an IC title shot. Actually it was just an excuse to get Lawler out of there so Ross & Coach could argue on the broadcast. So the IC title is now down to being background noise while the main focus is an announcers feud.”

Why was this programmed to get you in the ring and involved? Was this something you were excited about…and at the end of the day…what was the idea here - who was to get over?

Working with Coach while you’re yelling at each other…is that even enjoyable?

“Shane NC Jericho in 8:25. People weren’t that much into it, but match was fine. Blew away everything on the show. Kane came out and attacked Shane. They wound up in the back of the building. It was broad daylight at 9 p.m. We’re a time zone ahead and it was pitch black here. I know, those were trivial discrepancies compared with Kane setting a blazing inferno. He went to put Shane into the inferno, but Shane blocked it and Kane took the bump and was burned alive as we went off the air.”

We are at such an extreme here JR - how do you feel comfortable trying to get this over and sell this like its Kane being lit on fire?

On the other brand - SmackDown is obviously building to Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar in an Iron Man Match. As a long time announcer - you can see the differences in product between Raw & SmackDown. Did you ever look at SmackDown and go - I’d rather be on their show?

Raw hits a peak on September 1st from Lafayette with the highest rated episode since May. Burning Kane did something for the viewers didn’t it?

You open the show letting everyone know that Kane…despite what you saw last week…was not dead…

Then Lawler vs. Coachman took place…which is not supposed to be good and it’s not…but Al Snow comes out and said Coach is embarrassing him…but it provides a distraction for Snow to post Lawler and Coach gets the win. Speaking of Snow…have you seen Wrestlers on Netflix?

Austin destroys the Highlight Reel set and announces you will take on Coachman at Unforgiven. Was this ever the actual plan?

“Vince confronted Shane. Seems that he wanted to make peace with Shane before Shane died at the hands of Kane later in the show. Shane wasn’t going for it. Shane came out for a promo. For how big he’s pushed, the crowd didn’t react to him all that much. Bischoff came out and they were about to go at it, until Kane’s music played. Evidently, Kane had a change of heart, since he didn’t want to please the fans, but with all those memories of the Shane-Eric match from SummerSlam, Kane coming out was music to my ears. Well, until he handcuffed Shane to the post, poured water on him, and put jumper cables on his crotch. This was some bad stuff, as Kane brought out a car battery and did a few jolts to Shane, who as the new superman of wrestling, didn’t sell it, and teased killing him forever and nobody was going to make the save. Finally RVD came out with some chair shots and a Van Daminator, which sets them up for a cage match on the 9/8 Raw from Huntsville, AL.”

Jim - what are we doing here? I know people look at the Attitude Era in 98 as this difference in creative - but my goodness. Shane’s jumper cables on his crotch…

“Test & Keibler beat Richards & Victoria in 3:42. Test pretended he wanted to make up with Keibler, but she was shocked to find out it was a no DQ match. Test then refused to let her tag in, and Richards clotheslined her. Test went to high kick her, but she moved and nailed Victoria. Steiner came in and chased Richards all over the place and since there was no DQ, that was fine. Keibler crawled over and got the pin. Steiner destroyed Richards after the match.”

A lot to unpack here - what do you think of men hitting women with moves - then and now?

“Main was Michaels & Maven & Goldberg over HHH & Flair & Orton in 11:16. This was excellent stuff. Even though HHH couldn’t do much, it worked into the match perfectly as they kept him from being in with Goldberg. Michaels and Flair carried the deal most of the way, until Goldberg got the hot tag. Fans were chanting for “Goldberg” the whole match. HHH took over on him briefly, but he made a comeback on him, and speared Orton. He gave Orton a jackhammer and dared HHH to break up the pin. HHH was scared to come in the ring and allowed his partner to get pinned. This was a great story for getting Goldberg over as a real challenger and HHH over as a champion who isn’t as confident as he portrays.”

Finally…this is exactly what Goldberg needed wasn’t it?

Should this had been the way Goldberg was booked all along?

The company would settle out of court with Darren Drozdov…were you a part of these negotiations and how important was the company in attempting to take care of Droz?

Ernest Miller was taken off Velocity due to his…commentary work. What did you think of the Cat in that role and why do you think it didn’t work?

Raw drops to a 3.6 rating against the season premiere of Monday Night Football and the show starts with Rob Van Dam & Kane in a cage in an attempt to get people hooked on the show but sadly it doesn’t work. It’s tough going against football at this point isn’t it?

This show is from Huntsville…and Kane got the win in the cage match. From the Observer:

“They at least had Kane do something to his skin that looked like a rash to make it appear he had some slight burns from two weeks ago.

RVD first won when Kane threw him into the cage and the cage broke in 8:35. Bischoff then came out and said the rules are going through the door or over the top, not into the cage and it breaks. So in the second match, Kane continued to destroy RVD and won in 2:19 after a choke slam off the top rope. RVD went out on a stretcher.”

Does this make anyone look good here with this type of finish?

“Austin came out for a 20 minute interview segment. This didn’t really even have a purpose other than the feeling that Austin being out there for 20 minutes would be good for ratings, which it usually is. Austin talked about how he’d been drinking, what he’d been drinking, and was mad because he’s not allowed to whip any ass. Christian came out and complained about his lack of respect. Christian wanted Jericho’s talk show.

Finally Jericho came out to a total face reaction, and cleared the ring of him to a “Y2J” chant. But he turned himself back heel by insulting Austin and calling him a bully and a failure as GM. He offered Jericho a beer. Jericho said he knows that trick and that’s to set up a stunner. Still, Jericho took the beer and patted Austin on the back. I guess that is considered provocation since Austin stunned him as Jericho did the beer drooling spot as he took the bump.”

Austin equals ratings I get it - but it felt like during this era he was just out there cutting 20 minute promos for the sake of filling a segment - is that how you felt?

“La Resistance & Conway & Henry & Mack beat Dudleys & Spike & Hurricane & Rosey in 4:47. Everyone did their finishers on each other until Henry pinned Bubba with a powerslam. Post match was supposed to have La Resistance throw Spike over the top through a table. Their throw was short and the top of Spike’s head whiplashed against the end of the table. All I can say is that Spike must have done some good deeds in his life to come out of that one without a broken neck. He was actually fine, or as close to fine as you’re going to be, afterwards. Grenier is a heat magnet just because how he got in and how he lucked into a push without nearly killing a popular guy.”

JR - this is one of the biggest GIFs on the internet of brutal injuries…when you’re watching this are you going - man these guys are too green for TV?

How lucky was Spike?

“Coach & Snow went to the ring to die a brutal death. Coach was making fun of J.R. Do you realize that when WCW did it with Ed Ferrara, everyone thought it wasn’t creative nor funny. Well, just because WWE is doing it, it’s still neither. Crowd certainly thought that way. Coach showed photos of JR’s face superimposed on a bodybuilder, a sumo, a dancing girl, a government mule, as Jabba the Hutt, and well, nobody laughed. He then started the personal insults. JR went to the ring and kept getting insulted. Lawler ran out with him since Snow was in the ring. JR decked Coach after he knocked JR’s hat off and Lawler decked Snow with JR booting him out of the ring.”

How much did this bother you if any?

The end of this Raw has Hunter whacking Goldberg with a chair shot and Flair gigs him and Goldberg bleeds well but when they go for a Pedigree…Goldberg goes too quickly and it looked terrible so Hunter does it again and it doesn’t look great but it gets the job done. Do you think this helps the narrative that Goldberg wasn’t ready?

Randy Savage’s rap album comes out - do you think there was ever talk of Randy Savage and Hulk Hogan working together at WrestleMania XX?

Why do you think Savage and the WWE never came back together?

Raw on September 15th from Columbia, SC drew a 3.73 rating up against the Cowboys and the New York Giants which was a big game at that point. Why do you think the ratings were holding up well?

Jericho & Christian open the show by picketing that they don’t want to do anything until Austin is fired. Austin came out and asked them to hit him so he could be provoked to hit them. Somehow this leads to Jericho taking on Van Dam with the winner getting a shot at Christian’s IC title. It ends with a no contest so that leads to Austin making a three-way at Unforgiven. Three of the best workers in one match doesn’t help the overall show does it?

Somehow after Spike survived last week…he’s put into a match with Conway who beats him in 20 seconds and then powerbombs him through a table. This could’ve helped Spike move into a bigger role - but instead he’s killed dead and probably shouldn’t have been on the show right?

“Bischoff was alerted that two half naked women were in his office. Actually it was Moolah and Mae Young, who were fairly well clothed, and thank God for that. Young gave Bischoff a big kiss. There must be a sign next to Vince’s mirror that reads, “Hire your enemies so you can make fun of them every day of your life.”

Recently turned 80 years old Fabulous Moolah (in her hometown) pinned Victoria in :31 when Victoria punched Mae, and Moolah schoolgirled her. Victoria jumped her after the match. Orton ran in and pulled Victoria off, and acted like a gallant gentleman, telling Victoria that Moolah was a legend of the business. Then he noted he was a legend killer, and gave her an RKO. Even though Moolah lived through this, this was a bad idea because the move was done sloppy and Moolah really could have been hurt.”

Moolah doing all this after turning 80 - I mean how dangerous was all this? Are we happy we’re past the point of having these types of things happen?

There’s a contract signing between Bischoff, Shane & Kane for their match at Unforgiven. It would have Shane hit Kane with five low blows, a chair shot to the back, and coming off the top rope with the elbow through the announcers table. Was it too much considering they still haven’t even wrestled yet?

There’s a story that Gail Kim slept with Eric Bischoff to get her a better spot and she would team with Molly Holly to defeat Trish Stratus in a handicap match that would lead to Lita returning. Do you think Gail Kim ever got a fair chance in the WWE?

“Venis beat Test when Steiner came out and distracted him, allowing Venis to use a half nelson drop for the pin in 2:59. Coach & Snow did the announcing for this match dressed up to make fun of JR & Lawler. The making fun of JR was old when Russo did it in WCW in late 1999. So now it’s four years old and doesn’t get even bad heat. But Vince likes screwing with JR for jollies so we see it.”

Is that what it was in your mind - Vince screwing with you to for his jollies?

“Lawler challenged Snow to a match, and won in 2:19 with an inside cradle. Most of this was JR and Coach arguing at the announcers table over whether Coach knew any wrestling moves, and Coach noting that he was better looking. I think this was probably reminiscent of the arguments that never take place internally, but probably should. Coach decked Ross from behind.”

You couldn’t have enjoyed this could you?

The main event of the show features a promo with Triple H for the go-home but his mic keeps cutting in and out and he goes, “Well the mic was like Goldberg, it doesn’t work well.” Eventually Goldberg would come out and power slam Hunter to end the show…not the best go-home was it?

Kurt and Brock’s 60 minute iron man match on SmackDown takes place three days before the pay-per-view - did you watch it and what did you think of it?

Is it tough to have that match before the pay-per-view?

You would appear at the first OVW anniversary show with John Cena. When you would do something like this - was this at the behest of Jim Cornette? Checking in on talent? Chat me up.

We’re finally here JR - and the show - even with the lack luster build - still is a success on pay-per-view. 360,000 buys compared to the year before which was headlined by Brock Lesnar defending his newly won WWE Title against the Undertaker got 296,000 buys. Goldberg vs. Triple H - regardless of the creative - sold pay-per-views didn’t it?

The show is…now well received by the Wrestling Observer readers - with 44% voting the show a thumbs down. Lets get into it!

From the Observer

The show drew a sellout 10,347 paying $560,000. On the bright side, it was an all-time pro wrestling record for Hershey.

We keep hearing every week about WWE announcing the all-time gate record for this event and that event…its always impressive to hear that isn’t it?

“A. Maven pinned Steven Richards in 5:13 when Maven came off the top rope with a neckbreaker. It was decent for the Heat match. They are pushing Maven toward a higher spot with interaction in the pre-game show with Shawn Michaels.”

The two newest YouTube creators out there talking about pro wrestling - what did you think of Maven & Stevie Richards?

“1. Bubba & D-Von Dudley won the Raw tag titles in a handicap tables match beating La Resistance & Rob Conway in 10:17.

This was presumably made into a last minute title match and switch due to Grenier’s injuries that will keep him out for a few weeks. Rules were that all members of a team would have to be put through a table, which meant the Dudleys (they were selling that Spike was off due to an injury) had to put three guys through. But it wasn’t an elimination match. Even though injured, Grenier took his fair share of bumps and didn’t come across as banged up. D-Von was whipped into a table at 6:45, so the heels needed only one more while the faces needed three. Bubba put Grenier thorough at 8:08. They mimicked the injury spot over the top on Spike, but to allow for margin of error, two tables were put on the ground as Bubba threw Conway over the top through the tables at 9:18. D-Von KO’d Grenier with the French flagpole and used a 3-D on Dupre through a table to win. **”

La Resistance could’ve been something if they were just a lot more mature am I right?

You would point out after the match that this was the Dudleys 17th world tag team title and that it was probably an all-time record - did you see they reunited at Impact 1000 recently again as a tag team?

“2. Test pinned Scott Steiner in 6:56 of a match where Test put Stacy Keibler up against Steiner putting himself up as a slave. Pretty bad, including a spot where Steiner lost Test on a Tiger driver attempt. Keibler kept helping Steiner, but it was to no avail. Keibler went for a chair shot on Test, but he moved and Steiner got it, and Test scored the pin after a high kick. *”

When you look at the 18 month trajectory of Scott Steiner in the WWE…he did what he was told at the end by putting over someone like Test - did you ever deal with him backstage in any sort of way having any issues?

“3. Randy Orton pinned Shawn Michaels in 18:47. This was the best thing on the show. Michaels did a good job carrying things. Orton didn’t show himself as quite ready for where they are pushing him, but he’s also only 22 and probably will get there. At least he wasn’t hurt in the least. Michaels did a plancha to the floor which probably isn’t smart with his injuries. Ric Flair was at ringside, all animated, taking bumps all over the place from Michaels, and actually working harder than either guy in the ring. Ross said that the two best wrestlers he’d ever seen were Michaels and Flair. Orton missed a flying body press and Michaels hit him with an elbow from the top rope and a superkick. Ref Earl Hebner counted three, but Flair put Orton’s leg over the bottom rope. Hebner saw it and re-started the match. Flair gave Orton knux, and ran in the ring. Michaels hit Flair with a superkick, then picked Orton up for a back suplex, but Orton used the Knux, and Michaels collapsed for the pin. ***½”

You could see the greatness in Randy Orton at this point in time could you not?

How important is a win like that for Orton?

“4. Trish Stratus & Lita beat Gail Kim & Molly Holly in 6:46 when Lita pinned Holly after a moonsault.

It was Lita’s first match back, and she did appear rusty. But Stratus worked most of the way and they had a good match, building to Lita’s hot tag. Lita’s neck flexibility seems limited after the fusion surgery, and it’s noticeable in how she moves. She was injured, suffering two badly chipped lower front teeth and nearly bit through her tongue. **½”

The women’s division is not anywhere near what it is today - but still the match was good. Was it hard to build a division at this time with a lack of available talent?

“5. Kane beat Shane McMahon in 19:42 of a last man standing match. McMahon came out with tons of chair shots all over Kane, including to the knee. Shane did a coast-to-coast dropkick of the stairs into Kane’s face for the biggest pop of the show. They were doing a ten count only finish, and

Kane stayed down forever, but ref Charles Robinson had been tossed from the ring, so Shane got his visionary win. They brawled out of the ring and up the ramp. Kane threw McMahon into the Unforgiven sign on the wall. Kane then threw the Spanish announcers table (up on a platform instead of at ringside) off the platform, presumably on Shane. However, when he went down, Shane got him from behind and used this heavy bar for the close-up camera to whip into Kane. In doing so, the expensive camera itself hit the remains of the Spanish table and cracked.

Bout ended with Shane climbing up to the top of the Unforgiven set, and doing his senton off the top, nowhere near Kane. It was a good match for what it was, even though it’s the kind of match that is fashionable to hate, and I don’t like anything that encourages too much risk to get over. That said, seeing Shane allowed to look that good, and have the monster Kane fail to put him away, but Shane beating himself, probably wasn’t the way to do things. ***¼”

Is that Vince protecting Shane in that finish - instead of the monster Kane having to put him away? Or really where else does this finish go after jumper cables on balls and people being thrown into dumpsters of fire?

“6. Christian retained the IC title in a three-way over Chris Jericho and Rob Van Dam in 19:03.

This was a weird match because the first half was terrible with no crowd heat, but second half was some of the best stuff on the show. Much of the match had one guy out selling while other two did the match. The biggest spot saw Jericho on the top, but Van Dam jumped to the middle ropes and put Jericho on his shoulders for a middle rope electric chair spot. Christian then ducked underneath and turned it into a double power bomb. Crowd loved that. Finish saw Christian go for a belt shot on Van Dam, and he ducked out. Van Dam catapulted Christian into Jericho and schoolboyed Christian for a near fall. Van Dam went to the top. Jericho grabbed a chair, but Van Dam kicked him away. He missed Christian grabbing the belt. Van Dam came off the top with another frog splash, and Christian put the belt on his knees and got his knees up so Van Dam hit the knees and belt. Christian then covered him for the pin. Christian suffered a busted mouth. ***”

Talk about 3 guys having a hell of a match - and to see all 3 a central part of AEW currently - and they all still can go - quite the accomplishment is it not?

Its hard to get going sometimes in a 3-way for the wrestlers is it not?

Now the fun part JR…from the Observer

“Unforgiven on 9/21 at the Giant Center in Hershey, PA, was one of those nights where the elementary mistakes bit WWE in the ass.

Since Goldberg’s long-term future with the company is very much in question, what may have been more damaging is the semifinal program, with Raw announcers Jim Ross & Jerry Lawler losing their spot to Jonathan Coachman & Al Snow.

This angle had died a brutal death on Raw, as Coachman’s spoofing of Ross drew no heat live, and came across as a repeat of a Vince Russo angle which was no less masturbatory. Worse, this one hurt. This marked the third angle to get Ross off Raw in the past year. The first was at least unique. The second was ridiculous, but did draw ratings and helped elevate Kane’s new character. But this third angle came far too close to the second. While fans hated Coachman when he did the announcing the last time, trying to play that into an angle was a double failure because instead of Ross being the voice trying to explain the clown show, he became a participant in it, which hurts him as an announcer.”

Did you have reservations for how this was all playing out and do you agree it was hurting your credibility?

Dave would continue…

Worse, the idea of mocking Ross & Lawler only served to make them as characters, parodies of themselves, like a gimmick performer like Hulk Hogan would be today. Instead of his cliches being folksy and his looks and age being non-issues because of his unique connection as an announcer to the masses, the cliches and other issues became something for younger people to laugh at. If WWE had an older audience, this probably could have even hit a chord, but that audience has been gone for years. When the company aims for a teenage and young adult audience, and they see Ross as an older guy, who while more competent, comes across as old while facing the hipper and totally unfunny Coach, everyone is hurt. Ross’ age and looks and cliches are no longer a plus. Coach’s youth is also no longer a plus because he’s been exposed as a clown, a failed heel, and a bad announcer. If the plan is to groom a younger person at some point to take Ross’ spot, all they did was ruin the prime candidate they’ve been grooming. Worse, if they do go back next week and Ross beats Coachman in the singles match on the 9/29 Raw in Chicago, why did they even bother? They delivered a match that wasn’t good for a one week stipulation that served no positive purpose. If it goes longer, that’s even worse, since Coachman was a failure in his recent run as Raw announcer, and with the franchise struggling, the last thing you need is a change to a “B team” announcer who can’t get issues and talent across.”

Why do you think Vince kept trying to replace you and why do it with a heel Coachman in the long run?

Let’s get into the match itself now…

“7. Jonathan Coachman & Al Snow beat Jerry Lawler & Jim Ross in 8:16.

This match had no announcing. I didn’t mind that, but it should have been advertised ahead of time as something different (the NFL did that many years ago as an experiment). By just having a match with no announcers, the company looked like it was WCW, which it pretty much is.

Snow did a good job carrying and Lawler moves very well for someone who has wrestled for 34 years and is about to turn 54. I read something from Lawler that was so funny. He talked about all the guys killing themselves and not having long careers and if he should give advice. He said he never gives advice, because he remembers being 25 in wrestling and never listening to advice of the old-timers. Lawler pulled down the strap to zero reaction. Wrong part of the country. Fans were chanting for JR to tag in. Why? Then even popped big when he got a hot tag. He kicked Snow low and booted him from the ring. He hit Coach with some stiff blows to the back and Coach sold the offense like a pro. Ross was doing the ground and pound on Coach when Jericho ran in and gave Ross a low dropkick and put Coach on top for the pin. Earlier in the show Jericho vowed to break Steve Austin down mentally, so he interfered to lead to Austin’s best friend losing his job. *”

The line about Lawler is great - that’s Jerry to a T isn’t it?

What do you think of not having any announcers for the match - how badly does that hurt the product?

Did any of this really matter in the long run?

“Ross gave an awesome good-bye speech, and then said wrestling wasn’t about the announcers, it was about the world title, trying to put over the main event. If they had put over the title like this for the past two years, they wouldn’t be having these problems. Of course, the biggest problem is that there are two titles, so instead of one world title that means something, you’ve got two that don’t mean crap.”

Jim - I’m sure these were your true feelings. But you were about to call the main event anyway! Did any of this make sense?

“8. Bill Goldberg pinned HHH in 14:57.

Ross mentioned the day being the birthday of former world champ Jack Brisco. Goldberg sold for several minutes until HHH took a

Harley Race bump over the top. HHH juiced after a whip into the steps. Goldberg head-butted the cut. There was the standard ref bump, leading to an HHH low blow and DDT, so he wouldn’t allow Goldberg to kick out of the pedigree. He tried the pedigree, but Goldberg backdropped him over the top rope. HHH pulled the sledge hammer from under the ring and hit Goldberg in the jaw with it. Goldberg was staggered, but when HHH got in the ring, Goldberg hit the spear and jackhammer combo for the pin. The actual three count got a nice reaction, but seconds later, it was as if they got caught up in the moment but ultimately didn’t care because it died down fast. After seeing the clip of Hogan-Goldberg just a week earlier on Raw, this came across so flat.

*3/4

The show was supposed to be the coronation of Bill Goldberg as WWE Raw champion. Well, in wrestling, dating back to such luminaries as Lou Thesz, Strangler Lewis and Stephanie McMahon, there is the saying “We can do it the hard way or the easy way.” Well, in this case, nobody was whispering that before a title change, but they could do it the smart way or the dumb way. Well, the dumb way was going to pacify the ego of the boyfriend, and few thought anything different would happen.”

What say you JR - was this the easy way or the hard way - for Goldberg to capture the World Title by not kicking out of the Pedigree and it taking him 6 months to do so after entering the company?

This wasn’t the ideal situation for either man with Hunter being hurt - but not the best showing was it?

This was Hunter’s belt for just about a year - and I’m sure not the way he wanted to go out - but it felt very much that creative wasn’t great for a year and this could be a shot in the arm for the title. Were you excited about Goldberg’s upcoming run?

What say you JR when you look back at all this - thumbs up, thumbs down or thumbs in the middle?