STW - The Great American Bash 2008 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Bruce we are back and better than ever and today we’re discussing Great American Bash 2008!

We are coming off Night of Champions and the newly realigned World Wrestling Entertainment. A draft took place on June 23rd that lives in WWE lore. It was the night Hunter, JR & Jeff Hardy was moved to Smackdown and Batista, Rey Mysterio, CM Punk & Michael Cole were moved to Raw.

It is notorious that JR had an issue with this transition and move - was it about Vince fucking with JR or legit trying to boost SmackDown?

Coming out of Night of Champions, Hunter retained the WWE Championship over John Cena and Edge defeated Batista to retain the World Heavyweight Championship. But the next night on Raw…Batista destroyed Edge to help facilitate CM Punk cashing in his Money in the Bank title shot on Edge and pinning him in 6 seconds to become new champion. This is the first time the World Heavyweight Title had changed hands on Raw besides Hunter behind handed the title 6 years sooner. Was CM Punk ready to be World Champion at this point?

That Raw was also notable for attempting to make a new round of stars besides Punk. Kofi Kingston, Ted DiBiase & Cody Rhodes all won titles the night before and were highlighted on Raw…Kofi defeating Jericho by DQ and the heel turn of Cody Rhodes being more developed. Did the talent roster at this point in 2008 need a shakeup of new stars?

From the Observer

“Some more inside notes regarding the roster changes and fallout. There is a feeling that they made enough moves to freshen up the product, which badly needed it, and Smackdown did benefit in most ways although the jury is out on what the full-time loss of Mysterio will mean to the Hispanic demo.

But there is talk in the move that Raw and Smackdown lost their uniqueness. Raw was supposed to be a wrestling and md/variety show targeting males 12-49 while Smackdown was more kids and Hispanic oriented”

Was that a company initiative and the state of both brands and their places in the market at the time?

Also from the Observer

“Shelton Benjamin moving to Smackdown was a surprise because Michael Hayes was never high on him. Hayes has said in meetings he feels Benjamin his lazy and never seized the moment when he had promo time or during his many start-and-stop big pushes.”

Did Michael have an issue with Shelton around this time?

Last note from the Observer on this…

“Believe it or not, there are people very high on Deuce. I don’t know about him on live TV as Deuce is one of those guys a lot better when his matches are edited. He’s scheduled to be repackaged and the plan is to do something with him on Raw, but you know how WWE plans are. There are producers who are skeptical of these plans because the feeling is he won’t be good in singles matches. There is a feeling he has charisma, which he does have, but his timing in the ring and ring mechanics are well below average. People are

also speculating on Domino being on the endangered species list.”

Deuce was Sim Snuka and Domino Cliff Compton. We didn’t see much of either after this. Was it the gimmick or was it the guys?

As the transition of Cole and JR takes place…JR cuts a promo on Raw that he’s excited about the move to Smackdown (of course this is in Oklahoma City…) and Edge interrupts him and has Hawkins & Ryder escort him to the back before Punk does his cash in. At Smackdown in Tulsa the next day Cole cut a similar promo and it ended with JR throwing him out of the ring but it never aired. Vince loved this shit didn’t he?

Did JR cause him to get moved because of what he wrote on his website do you think?

Also…we’re still discussing the McMahon Millions gimmick where the stage fell on Vince and he’s hurt and Shane comes out and says he will not comment on the issues with his father at this time…where was this supposed to go do you remember?

In Tulsa Dos Caras Jr…to be known in the future as Alberto Del Rio…was brought to the tapings to get looked at. Since he spoke perfect English and could wrestle all types, he would be the next Rey Mysterio on Smackdown for that demographic. What did you think when you saw Del Rio for the first time?

Jericho & Michaels were starting to heat up their program…both have said over time that they were very hands on with their storyline. Was that an issue with anyone on the writing staff or producers - or were they both so respected you knew they were ok with their stuff?

Smackdown in Tulsa began to build Hunter and Edge. This is a program that hadn’t really been touched in many years at this point - so this was new and fresh wasn’t it?

“Vickie Guerrero appeared, with Triple H congratulating her on her upcoming wedding and praising Edge for marrying the boss; he then suggested getting married at a drive-thru in Las Vegas, and noted you don’t even need to be conscious to go through; Vickie then praised Edge’s accomplishments, with Triple H then implying Vickie was fatter than the girls Edge typically goes out with; Vickie then announced Edge would challenge Triple H at the Great American Bash”

This is the first time the company is starting to touch on the fact Hunter & Stephanie were married at this point - was that one of the no-nos that changed over time?

From the Observer

“Jesse & Festus beat Hawkins & Ryder. Edge laid out Festus with a chair shot after the match. This leads to an argument with Edge and Vickie where Vickie locked Edge out of her office.

Edge and Vickie fought even more and started yelling at each other, ending with Edge calling off the wedding and Vickie going crazy and throwing her engagement ring down. I can’t believe they are canceling the wedding that they had been building for months. Worse, I can’t believe they did it on a week (this airs 7/4) that a large percentage of even the most loyal fans would be skipping the show.”

I mean this just seems like normal relationship drama doesn’t it?

From the Observer

“Bill Mueller (Trevor Murdoch) was let go this past week. This came as a surprise to everyone, and since he was booked with MVP on house shows already announced. He was specifically requested by Michael Hayes before the draft. We don’t have any info on what the real reason would have been. The singing gimmick really didn’t get over the way they liked, but he also didn’t even get a chance on the new show. He was told essentially, “Your character is going nowhere and creative has nothing for you.” It’s strange because an angle had been proposed where he would first be linked in a weird way with MVP as an Odd Couple (Texas redneck/well groomed African American) duo where Murdoch’s face turn would be stronger than the admittedly weak turn in the Cade program, which means the house show matches were likely to be changed until they did the program and you can’t do that program as a rush job or it guaranteed won’t work. The idea was to provide comedy segments and then do the feud, although I can see it getting nixed because in some aspects it’s too similar to the Matt Hardy association that went forever and just recently ended. Laurinaitis called him, but Vince himself approves all terminations. “Creative didn’t have anything for you” has been the line Laurinaitis has used, and Jim Ross before him, in trying to let people down easy because in many cases being cut is the termination of a childhood dream. Those close to Murdoch say he was taking it surprisingly well. It was said that Hayes, who had booked some mid-card ideas for him, was not aware of the termination until the internal memo right after Murdoch was told. It’s not known who did and didn’t know ahead of time other than people who would normally know had no idea this was coming until they got the memo, and others didn’t even know until it hit the web site.”

Bruce - chat me up about the Trevor Murdoch release.

At Raw in New Orleans, building off the really good one the week before, Jericho-Michaels was kept going with a great interview segment and Kane turned heel, in a much needed refresh of the character. Kane was pinned by Batista in a four-way #1 contenders match to take on Punk at the Bash. It was time for Kane to get a reboot at this point wasn’t it?

From the Observer

“They worked a segment where a light stand fell down during a Punk interview and later had a “fan who snuck backstage” playing to the camera doing Batista poses in front of Batista doing a program and showing security hauling him out. That stuff was beyond lame, as it was yet another example of the Eric Bischoff mentality as WCW was going down. Believe me, I don’t wish to relive the company leader going through a nervous breakdown when the snowball rolls downward again. But it’s even worse, because the snowball isn’t rolling downward, although if all I did was watch TV and wasn’t following the business numbers, I’d see the giving away money and fake fan run-ins and think they were scared to death and in response, were coming up with some lame ideas.”

What was the idea behind these gimmicks?

The show opened with a very pregnant Stephanie McMahon, shot from the neck up, cutting a promo that the wrestlers need to stick together during this trying time with her father gone…and with no GM or authority figure the shows are really just anarchy. Bruce…you just had a draft that separated the roster and it was made to be a big deal. Then what do you know what the next segment is…Vickie Guerrero being on the show. Like what are we doing?

There’s a very loose association between John Cena & Cryme Tyme…and it leads to one of the…worst written moments in John Cena’s career. Just last week we discussed the rise of Cena…this is probably the bottom.

From the Observer

Instead of a match, they did a segment where Cena and Cryme Tyme destroyed JBL’s limo, busting the windows and the windshield with Cena with a tire iron, JTG with a baseball bat and Shad with a lead pipe. JBL was kept at bay and they ended up tagging the limo with Cena writing “JBL is poopy.” Seriously, can anyone think of a line less lame than that?

This is the beginning of the PG era I understand Bruce…but my goodness.

“Punk pinned Snitsky with a Go 2 sleep in 2:48. He needs a different finisher if he’s fighting 300 pounders. Snitsky really took one for the team here, as Punk had to throw him different, and nailed him with the knee, apparently breaking his nose. Crowd was hot for Punk earlier in the show but dead here, and Snitsky isn’t exactly the kind of opponent people are going to care about.”

Punk two weeks in a row were working JBL & now Snitsky - was this the right spot to put the new champion in?

The next day is the ECW & Smackdown tapings…and Braden Walker debuted…and well we know the story from there but be sure to check out our False Finish spotlight on him over at adfreeshows.com…

Tony Atlas debuted and Dave Meltzer had this to say:

“Atlas got in because they are under the gun to get more African- American faces on television, and the best they could come up with is get a guy long past his prime known for doing horrible interviews in his prime, and make him a manager.

Henry double count out Dreamer in the main event. Tazz said that Dreamer was 6-3 or 6-4. Well, I guess to Tazz, everyone is. Atlas turned on Colin Delaney and distracted Dreamer for Henry to lay him out with the world’s strongest slam on the floor. Even though it was a double count out, Atlas as ring announcer said Henry won and he and Henry celebrated together.”

The Tazz line is hilarious - but chat me up about Tony Atlas return to the company here.

Very quickly there seems to be some issues with Michael Cole & Jerry Lawler according to the Observer…

“This is too funny for words. There’s now tremendous internal unhappiness with the Cole/Lawler combination and the second guessing of the original move has increased this past week. It has been discussed the idea of shooting an angle to put the old teams back together but every impression we’ve gotten asking around about it is that it’s not going to happen any time soon. The funny part is this all comes at a time when Ross on his web site has talked about how his new schedule is the greatest work schedule he ever had. Vince is said to not be thinking about doing the change back at this point, and more trying to get Cole to become what he wants the Raw announcer to be.”

Was Vince unhappy with Cole & Lawler in the beginning? Do you remember there being internal unhappiness about the transition?

“The paid attendances for the Latin American tour events last week were 12,000 and $750,000 in Santiago, Chile on 7/2, 12,000 paid (local media reports were listing 20,000 in the 45,000-seat soccer stadium) and $1 million on 7/3 in Lima, Peru, and about 3,000 each in Panama City and San Salvador on 7/4 and 7/5 for a four-day gross of $2.2 million. Chile was a huge success and Peru, even though they didn’t do a monster crowd for the debut in the soccer stadium, the feeling was that anytime you top $1 million on a house show gross that it’s a big success and because of the first two shows, the tour was a success. Panama City has been a weak market up to this point and San Salvador wasn’t a big success.”

Man this area of the world has always been up and down for the company hasn’t it?

The highlight of the next Raw was this segment:

“Rhodes said that it took them only a month together to be tag team champions. More like a minute.

Duggan came out and said how he teamed with Cody’s father and used to wrestle Ted’s father. He used to team with Ted’s father as well. He said they were great athletes but they needed to grow up. Rhodes & DiBiase cut a promo saying he was a 54-year-old man walking around in gym shorts and holding the same 2x4 he’s been holding for the last 25 years. They said that unless you are looking to win a championship, you shouldn’t be in the promotion. They then asked Duggan if he thought he could win a title rather than run around and do the same yell and relive his glory days which Rhodes said really weren’t all that glorious. Easily the best segment to date in getting the two over. Duggan while being told off was in the ring almost crying. Well, at least if you are burying a babyface it might as well be one who isn’t going anywhere. JBL then asked for them to team with him in the main event and they agreed.”

This is some great shit isn’t it Bruce?

“Main event saw Cena & Cryme Tyme over JBL & DiBiase & Rhodes via DQ in 14:47. As far as making Cryme Tyme and DiBiase & Rhodes look like real players, this match established that as it was a good match, until the finish, and the new main eventers came across as players. JBL is hurting bad, which is why he barely was in the ring. Rhodes in particular looked good working as a heel. Cena hot tagged in and used an FU on DiBiase, and then a legdrop off the top on Rhodes. He had Rhodes in the STFU when JBL made the save. And then the ref called for a DQ. A DQ for a save? Something they do in every tag match that has practically ever been held. I don’t mind the DQ, but at least give people something better than that. Cena chased JBL into the parking lot. Cena looked all over for him but JBL was able to jump Cena with a tire iron shot. He put the “knocked out” Cena and propped him up near a car. JBL took another car and then ran Cena over, got out and looked horrified at the act he had just perpetrated. But never fear, even though they never acknowledged Cena’s condition on TV, the storyline is that JBL’s aim with the car wasn’t good and Cena was barely grazed and he’ll be wrestling at the PPV. This whole Cena/JBL program feels like such a rerun of their old feud.”

Bruce…PG means you can run people over and just nearly kill them but make sure they’re back in time for the pay-per-view right?

The next day at Smackdown…the wedding that was off and back on again…happened before TV happened and now Edge & Vickie’s wedding reception would air. Was there a change to the story or the thought process behind it?

“Show ended with Edge & Vickie together in the ring. Edge showed a video of them making out. HHH then came out with a gift, which was a video of Edge hitting on Victoria Crawford (the wedding planner). Vickie blew a gasket. For those who have been following the story, from day one, the plan was always for them to have Edge always come up with some reason why he didn’t consummate the relationship with Vickie and then have it come out he was screwing with someone. Kristal Marshall at one point was talked about for it. I don’t know that this is exactly how it’ll go down over the next few weeks, but the plan was to come out of the wedding with Vickie so furious at Edge that she calls back Undertaker to take Edge out at SummerSlam.”

The swerve here…do you think Edge & Vickie had run out of steam or was this the only way to keep the story going?

Bruce…not the best reaction to the show. Last year at Great American Bash the show drew 250,000 buys…and at Night of Champions the month before it drew 286,000 buys…but this pay-per-view…only 196,000. Is that creative?

What did you think of Vince using the name Great American Bash? Were you surprised he used a WCW brand…and considering this was the last one named Great American Bash…do you think Vince was ready to cut and run on the name of the show because of the buyrate or just tired of the name?

The show is voted as thumbs up from the Wrestling Observer readers probably because of the Jericho - HBK match which we’ll get to but Meltzer is quite harsh in his criticism of the show…

“World Wrestling Entertainment presented a show more closely resembling TNA, because of context issues, and overall role confusion, with its Great American Bash PPV on 7/20 from the Nassau Coliseum.”

We’ll get to why he called it TNA…but Jericho & Michaels ended up doing something so different from the rest of the show, does anyone in the back after the show come up and go…why can’t we do something like that?

The show drew a legitimate sellout announced at 14,126 fans (about 12,000 paying $800,000).

At this point in time in 2008 - that’s a great number is it not?

“A. Umaga pinned Mr. Kennedy in a 4:00 squash using the Samoan Spike. Really surprising to see Kennedy booked like this.”

It just felt like both Umaga & Mr. Kennedy were on a down turn for their careers at this point. Why were they both at this point in their careers?

“1. Curt Hawkins & Zack Ryder won a four-way to win the WWE tag titles over The Miz & John Morrison, Jesse & Festus and Fit Finlay & Hornswoggle in 9:05.

Hornswoggle did a tope early. Jim Ross and Mick Foley were trying to compare Morrison with Rick Rude, except Foley said that Rude couldn’t grate cheese on his abs and he’s seen Morrison do it. Finlay used a shillelagh shot on Ryder but a save was made. Finish saw Festus going crazy knocking Miz & Morrison out of the ring. They set up Ryder for the rocket launcher, but Hawkins tripped Festus from outside the ring and Ryder got up and slammed Jesse off the top for the pin. Good opener. **¾

This one is a lot harder to make sense out of since Miz & Morrison were clicking as WWE’s best tag champs since the break-up of MNM.

There’s a long term plan I’m sure with Hawkins & Ryder and Edge being together…but Miz & Morrison were really killing it at this point. Was it too soon to take the titles from them?

Was it a big moment do you think for Hawkins & Ryder here and how happy were you for them?

“2. Shelton Benjamin pinned Matt Hardy in 9:33 to win the U.S. title.

They really put the title over by mentioning people like Harley Race and Ric Flair as former champions. Notice they never mention anyone who has held it in the last 20 years. This match had a ton of noise because you had the dueling chants where the girls were screaming for Hardy and a lot of guys were chanting for Benjamin. They didn’t react at all to the changes in flow of the match, but were making probably more noise than in any other match on the show. Hardy came back for a side effect for a near fall. By this point the crowd was popping big. It never ceases to amaze me how Hardy never wins with the side effect but 90% of the time the crowd pops like they think he’s going to win with it. Finish saw Hardy miss the moonsault and Benjamin got his knee up. Benjamin used his pay dirt, which is a jumping version of the downward spiral for the clean pin. ***¼”

Seems like we’re pushing Shelton for the 100th time but man Matt Hardy - he was just always over wasn’t he?

“3. Mark Henry pinned Tommy Dreamer in 5:29 to retain the ECW title.

Crowd died for this. Dreamer got a near fall using the DDT. Finish saw Dreamer on the top rope and Delaney grabbed his arm and snapped it over the top rope. Henry used the world’s strongest slam for the pin. This was the only bad match, featuring a match that may have set a record for least heat for any heel turn in history with the Colin Delaney turn on Dreamer.  1/4*”

I mean the Colin Delaney story is not one we talk about much…but why would we right?

“4. Chris Jericho beat Shawn Michaels via a ref stoppage TKO in 18:18.

Michaels did his nip up spot early but Jericho countered putting him in the Walls of Jericho in the middle. Michaels struggled to make the ropes. There were a surprising amount of boos when Michaels made the ropes. They traded forearm shots back-and-forth. Lance Cade came to ringside. Michaels threw Jericho over the top rope onto Cade and then Michaels did a moonsault off the top rope onto both guys on the floor. Jericho gave Michaels a backward elbow to the eye and Michaels did this quick had movement to blade his eye. Michaels was bleeding all over the place and Jericho worked on the cut with them working to make every punch mean something and Jericho head-butting the cut. Michaels made a comeback and got a crossface but Jericho made the ropes. Ref Marty Elias teased stopping it but Michaels wanted to continue. Jericho kept pounding on the eye, finally getting a side mount and throwing punch after punch, as well as palm blows to the cut. Michaels was selling like he was out and not defending himself. Finally Elias dived in like an MMA match to stop it. ***¾

The two tried to do a more realistic style of match, complete with a blood stoppage more akin to MMA than modern pro wrestling. There is more and more of an MMA influence in pro wrestling, just like happened in Japan a generation ago. It works to some and doesn’t to others. In this case, Michaels bled badly, and Jericho continued to work over the cut, until he had him down and was pounding on the cut until the ref jumped in, similar to a ref in an MMA match, and stopped it. Post-match, Michaels did not make a comeback. It was simply a top babyface got the hell beat out of him, and later in the show, Jericho announced Michaels had suffered a detached retina and his career was over. Michaels is booked for shows in a few weeks and they on TV seemed to be building toward a rematch, and with SummerSlam coming up, they aren’t going to waste a big push on something that isn’t being delivered on the big show.”

We know that’s not true but man you look back at this and it’s one of the last big blood lettings on WWE pay-per-view on purpose. How good was this and how good were these two?

“5. Michelle McCool beat Natalya in 4:41 to become the first Smackdown Divas champion.

A little rough going in spots and crowd wasn’t much into it, but they were put in the position to take the crowd down between a match expected to get over big and a match they wanted to get over big. Natalya used the upside down surfboard (Rito Romero special also known as La Tapatia) and later a sharpshooter, but McCool made the ropes. McCool won clean with a heel hook. *¾”

Just trying to get the girls on the show aren’t we?

“6. C.M. Punk retained the World title going to a no contest with Batista in 11:10.

The crowd seemed to cheer Batista more but they did not boo Punk. Earlier in the show, Punk did an interview about how everyone thinks he’s a fluke champ and not a worthy champion and he went so hard on people thinking he can’t win that it pretty much was a lock he couldn’t lose. Batista spent much of the match working on Punk’s back. Punk did a great high kick for a near fall. Punk also used an armbar over the ropes and a springboard clothesline for a near fall. Batista later missed a charge into the corner and his shoulder hit the post. Batista was on the floor and Punk came off the apron with a tackle but Batista caught him and planted him with a spinebuster on the floor. At this point, Kane came out and rammed Batista into the ringpost. Kane then got in the ring and laid out Punk with a choke slam and left. After he left, including laying out a camera man with a high kick, and the match had been ruled a no contest, Punk and Batista were left in the ring both selling. As they got up and started jawing, Batista laid Punk out with a Batista bomb. It’s funny because they act like they want to make Punk into a worthy

champion, yet he got laid out twice by Batista and once by Kane here. ***”

I mean…Punk is not booked strong here and no one thought he was going to retain so it was correct…but did it seem like Punk was being setup to fail?

“7. JBL beat John Cena in a New York City Parking Lot Brawl in 14:36.

The strangest was the booking of the John Cena vs. JBL program. On Raw six days earlier, they went off the air with the visual that JBL had crushed Cena’s body as he sat him up by a car and drove another car at a fast speed crashing into him.

On ECW the next night, while they showed a clip, no mention was made of exactly what happened. They did, on their website, state that Cena had only been grazed and was okay. So then, on the PPV, Cena after JBL thought he had nearly killed him, showed up unmarked, unscathed, and not selling. It’s not a critical mistake in the sense that during the boom period, it was routine to do ridiculous angles (who can forgot HHH in the car being dropped by a crane crashing to the ground and him being largely unscathed) involving crashing cars and physical beatings and not selling them the next week on television, and it was one of the high points popularity wise in the history of the business. But in doing so, when trying to portray something realistic in a non-cartoon pro wrestling manner, like the end of Michaels vs. Jericho, it is largely undercut due to context of the product issues.

The Cena angle was followed up by a New York City Parking Lot Brawl second from the top. The entire backstage portion of the match was taped the night before at the Nassau Coliseum. This allowed for edits and multiple takes if needed. The only stuff done on the day of the show was the finish in front of the crowd. The match included Cena being thrown in a car and the car set on fire, and Cena making a comeback from that, and having a forklift smash a car JBL was in.

Then Cena’s forklift lifted the car and brought him into the arena where Cena hesitated while JBL was on his shoulders for the FU. JBL escaped and threw Cena off the stage onto the windshield of the car, which was shattered, and JBL won. Apparently the win sets up JBL as the challenger for C.M. Punk at SummerSlam on 8/17 in Indianapolis. *”

What say you Bruce…what did you think of all of this - the angle, the match, and how it was filmed and presented?

“The other key match was HHH pinning Edge in the main event using the pedigree in a match which saw outside interference from Alicia Fox (Smackdown wedding planner, real name Victoria Crawford) and Vickie Guerrero. The finish was akin to TNA, in many ways reminiscent of last week’s Samoa Joe vs. Booker T match where you left confused. Fox interfered first and was giving Edge the title belt. This led to Guerrero coming down as a babyface, and attacking Fox. She got a big babyface pop. Where the confusion is that the wedding angle on television where HHH revealed a secret film from his hotel room where he was hitting on and making out with Fox before the wedding seemed to establish Edge as the heel. But in a poll taken during the PPV, WWE fans voted 55-45% that they felt more sympathy toward Edge.

The idea that two heels can feud is okay, but Guerrero in this scene was booked in a babyface position, and the people obviously after the initial pop didn’t take her as one. Then there was a spot right before the finish where the ref, Guerrero and Fox were all tangled up. Edge went to do a spear. Fox moved and Edge speared Guerrero. Jim Ross in commentary said that Edge was aiming for Fox, but I have no clue why he would be aiming for the woman who came out to help him win, or that he was last seen making out with. But he speared the hell out of Guerrero, who had been wheelchair bound for months on TV, but now this week was able to run to the ring as a face and do roll-around physical spots.

This was a hell of a performance by Edge in every aspect, particularly facials and bump taking. HHH was there but Edge was doing almost all the work. HHH got the clean pin with a pedigree. Very good match, but something was missing that is there for your top level PPV main events.

***½”

Did Hunter & Edge need all these gimmicks and smoke & mirrors? Did anyone of it really make sense?

What say you looking back Bruce, thumbs up, thumbs in the middle or thumbs down?