The Kurt Angle Show - Vengeance 2005 [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Coming out of WrestleMania you both are still on opposite brands, you on SmackDown and Shawn on Raw but there’s already teases coming off the match that you two are going to work together again. Did you think you were in for a long series of matches with Shawn?

You come back to SmackDown and eventually the ECW One Night Stand show is about to happen and you’re being built as anti-ECW. Did you ever think about ECW after your issue with ECW in 1996?

Did you ever ask Paul Heyman what he was thinking running that angle with you there?

The story on SmackDown - from the Observer:

“Angle became the grinch who hates ECW. He complained about going to ECW in 1996 when Raven did the crucifixion angle on Sandman.

They teased Tazz going after Angle. Angle said he was recruiting a Smackdown army to stop the ECW One Night Stand show.

Angle also won the home town gold medal challenge against someone whose name was never announced.

Working with Tazz and having you be the head of the Smackdown army - wouldn’t you had rather had the weekend off instead of having to go to New York for the pay-per-view?

The main event of that SmackDown is a battle royal where the winner gets to choose their dream match. You defeat Rey, Eddie & Booker to choose your dream match…and you ask for a singles match against Sharmell. WWE creative in 2005 was…interesting to say the least wasn’t it?

From SmackDown the next week in Edmonton: - BEFORE WE DO THAT - Kurt, any good Canada stories with travel or scary ones?

“Booker was mad at Sharmell wrestling, so Teddy Long made it a handicap match.

Angle cut a promo on Tazz and showed the 1996 appearance of Angle at the ECW show where Heyman brought him out to trick him into unknowingly putting over Taz. Angle asked Tazz to join him in shutting down ECW.

Angle beat Booker & Sharmell. After a terrible looking ref bump, Angle hit Booker twice with a chair and pulled Sharmell into the ring and pinned her. Booker chased Angle off with a chair.

Teddy Long announced Booker vs. Angle for next week, provided neither man is drafted.”

Look at you pinning Sharmell! Big win in your heralded career is it not?

When the WWE draft happens - everyone gets very nervous don’t they?

Why do you think the company keeps everyone in the dark? Is it really about leaking or do you think it’s fun for them sometimes to “work the boys?”

“SmackDown - June 9, 2005 from Kansas City:

Booker pinned Angle in what was said to be the best match of the week in the company. Angle went to hit Booker in the head with a chair, missed, hit the ropes and the chair bounced back and hit Angle and he was pinned.

Angle demanded an answer from Tazz on whose side is he on. Angle grabbed a chair and said he was going to sit next to Tazz until he made up his mind. Tazz didn't answer, so Angle hit him with the mic and then a chair. Tazz juiced. Tazz was taken to the back and it was played up very well.

This would be one of the last times Taz was involved physically in the WWE. Was he cautious during this time period?

From the Observer:

“Angle is openly talking about wanting to switch to Raw. In an article in the Peoria Journal, he said, "I've wrestled everybody on Smackdown more than once. I love wrestling the Eddie Guerreros and Rey Mysterios and guys like that. But there are guys on Raw that I haven't wrestled in years or have never wrestled. I would like to make a move and have a chance to be the franchise on Raw."

Did you know at this point you were going to Raw and building to it or was this you campaigning for it?

Did you tell anyone you wanted to be on Raw? Like is that a conversation with creative or Vince McMahon?

“He also did a shoot rip on ECW. "They almost ruined the business as a whole. Fans started to expect everyone and everybody to go through tables and get hung by barbed wire and it just really pulled the business back years and years."

He somehow blamed the ECW for creating expectations of fans that led to all the neck surgeries.”

It’s hard to disagree with this looking back - but did you get any heat or shit about this?

At ECW One Night Stand - June 12, 2005:

“The Smackdown crew of JBL, Kurt Angle, Orlando Jordan, The Bashams, Carlito and Matt Morgan showed up. Angle and JBL did a promo running down the audience. JBL said the fans were all internet guys, the wrestling is crummy, that people are buying the PPV to see him and when he's in MSG, the place sells out while they are in a Bingo Hall. Well, they weren't in a Bingo Hall, but whatever. He talked about how WWE was way above them….

To end the show, all the ECW guys got in the ring and Sandman asked for a beer. Austin came out to give him one and cut a promo on the WWE heels, telling them to get to the ring. He said if they don't come down, he was going up to get them. They came down for the expected ass kicking.

The big pop was Taz showing up and squaring off with Angle, leading to Rhyno goring Angle out of the ring where Taz choked him out in the aisle.”

Kind of weird to have you eat all this at the end - why you and not someone else do you think?

What was the atmosphere like at the show?

You’re finally drafted to Raw and end up doing the whoo off with Hunter & Flair.

Raw - June 13, 2005 from Binghamton, NY:

“Angle did a whoo-off with Flair, then HHH said it was gimmick infringement.

This was lasting forever and getting nowhere until Angle told HHH that he used to fool around with HHH's wife behind her back. Zing. The money line. The crowd buzzed about that one. HHH then laughed about it, and said everyone fooled around with his ex-wife.

The show ended with Batista coming out. HHH said he trained Batista and Batista was going to kill Kurt. So next week it's Angle vs. Batista as the main event. Michaels then came back and said he had no dance partner for the PPV, and challenged Angle. Angle accepted to a lukewarm response. Then, Angle, Flair, HHH, Batista and Michaels had a sloppy brawl. Angle paired off with Batista and it wasn't pretty.”

This - this is quite the segment for many reasons. Between the comedy, the whooing, the line about Stephanie, and all of a sudden it’s you vs. Michaels…was this just too rushed?

Raw - June 20, 2005 from Phoenix:

“Batista beat Angle via DQ in 2:21 when HHH and Flair interfered, and Michaels made the save.

This set up a tag where Angle & HHH beat Batista & Michaels in 7:51. Michaels and Angle ended up brawling outside the ring into the crowd. In the ring, Batista gave HHH and Flair both spinebusters. After the one to Flair, HHH used a low blow and gave Batista a pedigree and pinned him. Batista looked fine on TV as last week he had gotten a black eye from a punch in the end of the show brawl from Angle. The match was so- so, as Michaels, Angle and HHH were below their usual level.”

Damn Kurt you gave Batista a black eye! What do you remember of this?

What was Dave to work with at this point in his career?

Teaming with Hunter - that was different wasn’t it?

Was Shawn happy to be working against you again? Were you excited?

Vengeance - June 26, 2005 from Las Vegas:

“Coming two weeks after the ECW PPV show that, even with them almost pretending it never happened, feeling about it on television is still the biggest thing in wrestling, the Raw crew was under the gun.

It would be almost impossible to live up to the reaction to that PPV and it would almost be a sure thing that Vengeance, on 6/26 from the Thomas & Mack Center in Las Vegas before an estimated 9,000 fans would thus, be considered a disappointment.

Well, through adding a Kurt Angle vs. Shawn

Michaels Wrestlemania rematch, and Batista having his career best match in a Hell in a Cell with HHH, they produced a show with better in-ring matches, and one of the company's best shows in recent years.”

Did Raw feel the pressure after the insane reaction live ECW had?

“Michaels beating Angle was the expected getting his win back that seemingly always happens

if Michaels does a job. In a world where only Michaels and Angle are part of, it was Michaels' turn to win after putting Angle over so cleanly at Wrestlemania. But given the timing, where Angle has just jumped, and with Angle being Cena's career best opponent, beating Angle right now made no booking sense unless it's to set up a third match later this year where Angle wins, at which time he goes to a title challenging headline position”

Do you think it hurt you to jump over to Raw and lose right away?

The match is great though as Meltzer would say…

4. Shawn Michaels pinned Kurt Angle in 26:11. Another near classic performance. Angle at one point rolled through a sunset flip into a quick ankle lock. He used a German suplex onto the Spanish announcer's table, which didn't break. Michaels had a cut under his left eye, apparently from a Dory Funk style uppercut forearm. Angle threw him into the ring and German suplexed him to a near fall. He also used a belly-to-belly suplex after Michaels came off the top rope. Angle wound up with a bloody mouth. Michaels teased the first superkick but Angle leveled him with a hard clothesline.

Was the hard clothesline a receipt?

Angle went for the Angle slam, but it was reversed into an implant DDT for a near fall. Michaels went for a vertical suplex, but Angle countered into a German suplex and an Angle slam for a near fall. Angle kept going for the ankle lock and they teased the Mania finish. Michaels kicked out of the ankle lock and Angle knocked down the ref. Angle backdropped Michaels over the top rope, and Michaels started selling his knee. He kept going back to the ankle lock. After Angle missed a tackle and flew into the post, Michaels hit the superkick. Angle kicked out of that. Angle then went to the top rope and came off, into a superkick, which resulted in the pin. They tried to do an offshoot of the Michaels- Benjamin Raw finish, but this wasn't nearly as impressive or well timed.

Still, it was among the best matches of the year. ****1/2

Did you see Shawn & Shelton’s finish from Raw? What did you think of that match?

How different was the second time from the first time?

Do you think with a bigger build it could’ve been more?

Next week Kurt…we’re going to be looking at another Vengeance…this time 2006. One of your last pay-per-views with WWE. You & Randy Orton faced off one more time after you were moved to the ECW brand!