Grilling JR - The Dark Side Of Mid-South [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Let’s take a look back at your time in Mid-South Wrestling!

Mid-South Wrestling was originally NWA Tri-State Wrestling owned and run by former amateur and professional wrestler Leroy McGuirk.

The territory covered Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana and a few towns in Mississippi, Missouri and Texas. When did you first see or hear of Mid-South Wrestling?

What can you tell us of Leroy McGuirk?

By 1970, McGuirk had enlisted several part owners into the territory with Fritz Von Erich, Verne Gagne and Cowboy Bill Watts. Watts wanted a bigger share of the pie however.

Bill Watts’ book:

“I gave Verne my notice and then called Leroy and

told him, "Look, I'll work out my deal with you when I get there but I'm coming home to be your partner."

I started making some calls, booking talent. When Verne called me on it, I said, "Yeah, I'm booking talent there. Fuck you - you're out."

Verne and Fritz knew a good thing, so they met and agreed to make me a full partner.

The next thing I knew I had seventeen percent, Verne and Fritz each had twenty percent, and Leroy had the remaining thirty-three percent.

Leroy sold the other ten percent to Danny Hodge, still his top star.”

Walk me through what you knew of Cowboy back then and how did he tell you the story?

Do you think that’s actually how it all happened?

Your start in the professional wrestling business begins with setting up a fundraiser for college by wanting to hold an event is that right?

From your book:

“What’s your marketing plan?” Watts asked.

“I can get us radio air time for free,” I said.

“And how are you going to do that?”

“We’re making this a public service announcement,” I replied.

Watts smiled. He looked to Jerry to see if I was serious. Jerry nodded in affirmation.

“Our fraternity is non-profit. We can get the on-air time.”

How intimidating is Watts to sit down with?

The deal is, you provide security, make sure there’s two dressing rooms, the venue, an announcer & sell the tickets and pay for the ring. Was there an offer you wouldn’t have accepted?

That’s it, right JR? Your entrance into the business right?

The show sells out and you did all the advertising, radio work, etc. What are your memories of this?

Did you consider yourself a success?

Danny Hodge was on the show but not Bill Watts. Was this your first time seeing him live in person?

Did you ever think - this would’ve led to where we’re at today?

You would end up doing a second fundraiser with the promotion and Watts booked himself into the main event and it’s another sold out. When did Watts come to you and ask what you were doing that meant you were being successful?

You had one semester left of school but when Watts offers you a job you leave school to immediately accept. Why?

You wrote this in your book

“One of the only things I did know about my new career was that there were no benefits—no health coverage, no dental, no retirement plan. I was going to make $125 a week as an independent contractor.”

-From there you become Leroy’s assistant & driver:

From your book:

“Right from the start, I got a double-shot of the Leroy McGuirk/Bill Watts philosophies as they routinely butted heads. Their arguments, though, were a master class for me to witness. I was frequently exposed to two professors who had different theories on how to make money in the wrestling business.

Within a couple of weeks I saw that McGuirk was the figure-head boss who had enough clout to make changes to a card. He was brilliant, when sober, when it came to verbalizing the basics and the psychology of a wrestling match. I could see that behind the smoke and liquor breath, Leroy was an extremely smart man.”

How bad was Leroy’s drinking problem?

What did you learn from him that stands out the most all these years later?

How was Watts compared to Leroy?

Were you surprised they were able to work together?

You wrote this:

“The way Watts described my initial job with Leroy was: “You’re going to pick up Mr. McGuirk in the morning and bring him to the office, run errands for whatever he needs, help him out around the office, and then take him home.”

I quickly learned what Leroy needed first, before anything else, was his daily El Producto Presidente cigars and a pint of whiskey.

“And every other Tuesday, you’ll be responsible for getting him to Shreveport for TV,” Watts continued.

On those TV days, I was to make sure that Leroy’s coat was buttoned and fly was zipped; that he was wearing the right shirt with the right pants - basically making sure he was presentable for the TV cameras where he would then color commentate the matches.”

This is learning while on the job is it not?

How quickly did you regret it - if at all?

The issues between Leroy & Bill were apparent quickly weren’t they?

What did the talent think of the two? Were there Bill’s boys and Leroy’s boys?

Leo Voss you wrote in your book was someone who took you under their ring. What can you tell us about Mr. Voss?

Early on what was your role at the shows?

You’ve told the story of Leroy wanting to kill Ted DiBiase…what happened there?

You wrote this in your book:

“The only way Cowboy could convince Leroy to lay out the “exorbitant” sum to pay me was by assuring him that I would be working three jobs for the one paycheck.

As always, by hiring me, Bill was moving his chess pieces around the board a couple moves at a time. I wouldn’t just be Leroy’s assistant; I would also help out in the office all week during the day, and then at night I would work as a referee.

The officials were all fine referees, but they all were getting older and Bill wanted a referee with a little more mobility; one who could get more mixed up in the physicality when needed.”

Were you excited to get into the ring?

Did you know at this point you wanted to be an announcer since you had worked in radio previously?

What were some of the bigger shows you worked as a referee on?

You wrote in your book how you had some advice from Harley Race when you were going to be in his match with Dory Funk Jr. Were you nervous for working those two?

Were they the biggest stars up until that point for you?

What was Harley’s advice do you remember?

Who are the best referees you’ve ever seen and who are the current ones you enjoy the most?

What were some of the highlights & lowlights of being a referee for Mid-South?

We don’t get to do this often but let’s run through some of the talent - a little word association maybe?

• Lou Thesz
• Dick the Bruiser
• Danny Hodge
• Skandor Akbar
• Bruiser Bob Sweetan
• Killer Karl Kox
• Dick Murdoch
• Ron Garvin
• Larry Hennig
• Grizzly Smith

The weekly schedule in the territory at the time was usually:

For one crew, Monday was Tulsa; Tuesday was Little Rock; Wednesday was Springfield; Thursday was Wichita Falls; Friday was Oklahoma City; and Saturday was Joplin, Missouri.

The other crew worked Shreveport on Monday; Monroe, Louisiana, on Tuesday; Baton Rouge on Wednesday; Jackson or Vicksburg, Mississippi, or New Orleans, Louisiana, on Thursday; and Lafayette, Louisiana, on Friday. And on Saturday in Oklahoma City.

How did that all work out? How did you know what crew you were on?

Was there a loop you preferred more than others?

By 1975, Watts and McGurik had bought out Verne Gagne and Fritz Von Erich, and so only Watts and McGuirk had control of the territory. When did you hear that Verne & Fritz were out?

You would end up being an announcer for the first time in 1975 because someone had a mix up is that right?

What was the status of the company at this point?

Were they bigger than when you first got started?

Did you think this was the opportunity of a lifetime?

You worked with Leroy doing color - but it’s always interesting because of Leroy not being able to see. You think this could be accomplished nowadays?

From your book

“I dipped my head and closed my eyes and tried to summon up the voice of the greatest commentator I ever heard: Gordon Solie.”

“I began to practice my opening to myself at the desk.

“Hello, ladies and gentlemen and welcome …”

Watts, now standing behind me, interrupted. “If I wanted Gordon Solie, I would have hired Gordon Solie.”

“What?”

“Be yourself,” he said.

How important was this advice?

Right away - you want to be #1 do you not?

You wrote this in your book

“Mid-South, however, was rolling along just fine because Bill loved to keep an iron fist on all parts of the business. He wasn’t afraid to put his foot down when he needed - especially with the wrestlers he fought so hard to protect. Most of the Boys would take Cowboy’s famous fines with their mouths shut, but some wouldn’t, like Dick Murdoch.”

How tough was it to work in the terrority if you were a wrestler?

Did anyone come to you to bitch about Bill or Leroy?

From the Observer

The first pro wrestling event at the Superdome was on July 17, 1976, when Leroy McGuirk was still running the city with Bill Watts as his booker and partner. Watts spearheaded going into the Superdome, a move that most thought he was nuts to try. New Orleans was not known as a good wrestling market, and it’s not like they were frequently selling out the arenas. Watts felt, and correctly so, that if he put on a loaded show, the likes of which people in the city had never seen, the lure of wrestling at the Superdome would draw people who would normally never attend. In many ways, this was the beginning of the concept of quarterly supercards.

What did you think of the Cowboy’s plan to run the Superdome? Did you think he was crazy like so many others did?

“That first event drew 17,000 fans, headlined by Terry Funk retaining the NWA world heavyweight title beating Watts via doctor stoppage because Watts was bleeding too badly to continue, plus Dick Murdoch beat Killer Karl Kox in a Jim Bowie Death match, which was the term they used for a blindfold match. The big local star going for the world title and the two big rivals in a unique gimmick match, and yes, the blindfold match on that night was a huge draw some would argue the biggest reason for the success of the first show, were the key elements. The show was promoted four matches deep, as far as headline attractions, with Andre the Giant & Buck Robley beating Ken Patera & Bruiser Bob Sweetan, and Dick the Bruiser going to a double disqualification with Abdullah the Butcher in the other big matches.”

That’s a gigantic card at the time is it not JR?

What did you do at this show?

Was it a surprise to see how successful it was?

“On July 22, 1978, a crowd of 23,800 fans set what is believed to have been the all-time indoor gate record for pro wrestling at the time of $142,675 for a show headlined by Ray Candy beating Ernie Ladd in a cage match. The other two top promoted matches were North American champion Paul Orndorff beating Bruiser Brody and in a battle of outside top national attractions, as Dusty Rhodes beat Superstar Billy Graham.”

Was this all Watts doing? What was special about Watts booking and how it all came together at this point?

What influence did Ernie Ladd have?

In August 1979 - Leroy McGuirk and Bill Watts split:

Watts’ book:

“Not long after our Superdome success, I knew it was time Leroy and I went our separate ways. Generally, one can take the arrows shot from the front, but it really hurts, and can even destroy you, to get shot continually in the back. And that's what I felt Leroy was doing at that time.

In 1979, I told him we needed to split, and he didn't like it.

He reacted by suing me for embezzlement, and it hit the front page of the Tulsa World newspaper.”

How long did you see this coming JR?

Did Watts tell you he was going to do it?

Watts would continue:

“I called him and said, "Well, Leroy, you've done it now. You've gone public with this and slandered me. Have you forgotten that I never handled the money? You and Dorothy handled the money! How could I embezzle from you? I'm going to counter sue you for slander, and I'll end up owning your ranch!" His beautiful cattle ranch north of Tulsa was his pride and joy.

He immediately dropped that lawsuit, and he agreed to split.

He kept Oklahoma, Arkansas, our part of Missouri and Wichita Falls, Texas. I said I wanted Louisiana, and he said, "Then you'll take Mississippi too.”

How messy was all this JR?

In your book you wrote:

“Much to everyone’s surprise I stayed in Oklahoma, Leroy’s turf, because I had complex family issues unfolding there. I had just been through a divorce, which I knew was my doing, and I wanted to be closer to my daughter.

Without Bill to keep a lid on the prevailing shenanigans, Leroy’s office quickly devolved into a political cesspool with all the old stooges tattling on each other trying to curry favor. The more “power” the stooges gained, the more I could feel myself getting squeezed out. “Watts’s boy” was not “loyal to the cause.”

Did Watts give you any shit about going with Leroy? Did he understand why?

Were you sad to see this go down?

Eventually you would start booking spot shows and bring Leroy in as a partner. Why this path? Did Bill give you any heat for this?

You booked a series of shows featuring the McGuire twins and one of their opponents was Bob Sweetan. What can you tell us about what Sweetan did to the McGuire twins?

Didn’t you wash the McGuire’s backs?

You were fired two weeks later…what happened between you & Leroy?

Watts would continue to have more success…

From the Observer:

“On August 2, 1980, Watts did arguably the greatest angle of his career. In a take-off on the Fred Blassie vs. John Tolos angle in 1971 in Los Angeles, they had Michael Hayes’ Freebird hair-removal cream end up in the eyes of Junkyard Dog, who Watts was promoting as his biggest star. It was announced that JYD was blinded and would never wrestle again. A couple of weeks later, JYD’s then-wife gave birth to a daughter. It was promoted that even though blind, JYD would come back in a dog collar match inside a cage against Hayes, which drew 28,000 paid and $183,000, both indoor pro wrestling records.”

This is big time crowds & big time money JR. Were you sad you weren’t able to be part of it?

Finally in 1982 Bill officially buys out NWA Tri-State from Leroy and brought it back into his territoryerrority.

From Watts’ book:

“After promoting Mid-South by myself for a couple of years, I decided it was time in 1982 to go back into Oklahoma. I was kicking ass in Louisiana and Mississippi, but I lived in Oklahoma, so I finally said, "What the hell am I doing?"

Leroy's group was going downhill. He had George Scott booking for him, and George had a

reputation for being a good booker in the MidAtlantic states in the 1970s, but I thought his concept of booking and his finishes were about as exciting as watching grass grow.

I checked on how Leroy's TV shows were doing, and I found that they were in arrears with every television station they had. Leroy owed those stations a lot of money.

I got his Little Rock station and then Tulsa, where they liked Leroy but saw that my ratings were much higher than what he was getting for them. When I got Oklahoma City, that meant I had the territory.”

Did you keep up with everything going on around this time?

Do you think Bill was waiting for Leroy to fail to take over?

Did it make you want to get back into the business?

From your book:

“Jimmy?” the familiar voice said over the phone. “I need you to put together some ads for me.”

It was Cowboy, and I could tell by his voice he was in a real good mood. So he should have been. Things were looking up for Watts in the wrestling business.

The Houston territory had just joined the Mid-South territory out of necessity for Houston promoter Paul Boesch.

Did you think you would go back?

When Bill told you Leroy was out…what did that mean for you?

From your book

“How would you like to come work for me, Jim?” Watts asked before I could finish my sentence.

I was stunned, but my body filled head-to-toe with a rush of adrenaline just at the mere thought of it. I wanted more than anything to get back to the business I loved. To get back to ringside, to get back on the road that aged me.

Before I could answer, Watts continued, “Things are getting bigger and I want you to come onboard as the director of marketing for Mid-South Sports.”

“Yes,” I said immediately.

I knew it wasn’t the job I wanted. I knew it was an offer that I could “sell” to all the people who wanted me to just settle down, my wife included.

I was back in the wrestling business, but not back in the wrestling business. I’m the marketing guy. I’m back in, but not back in.

But I was back in.”

How excited were you to be back - even if it wasn’t the role you wanted to be in?

“You still interested in broadcasting, Jim?” Cowboy asked straight off the bat.

“You bet your ass I’m still interested,” I replied.

“We’ll start you back as a ring announcer. You have experience there. Then we’ll see how you go.”

Later…

“I want to try something new on the promos, Jimmy,” Watts said. “I want you to be the interviewer. You’re already doing all the publicity so you know what we need to put out there.”

I was thrilled, but a bit shocked. These local promos were the lifeblood of the company.

“Whatever you need me to do,” I replied. “You can show me what you want …”

“I’m not going to be involved,” he interrupted. “You’re in charge.”

This was gigantic for you was it not?

Watts would do a talent trade with Jerry Jarrett to keep the faces new and fresh. This would lead to you meeting Jerry Lawler. What were your first impressions of Jerry?

What did you think of the talent trades and why do you think they always seemed to work out for Bill?

You’d be working with Ernie Ladd - what can you tell us about the Big Cat?

How much did you learn from him?

Do you think he gets the credit he deserves for his role in the business, especially with his race back then?

The change in product for Mid-South was different from the cartoon characters and the such of the WWF. But what made it really different from JCP, JR?

How important was Jim Cornette to the expansion of Mid South?

That’s going to be all for today but there’s so much more to cover and we will continue his this year!