Grilling JR - Rob Van Dam [Show Notes] (Patreon)

Today JR - is April 20th. 4/20 is a big deal to a lot of people - and probably none bigger - than Mr. Monday Night, Rob…Van…Dam…

Rob has a long history in the business, including being involved in a skit where he kissed Ted DiBiase’s foot for $100 at a TV taping and he would break into the business with being trained by the Original Sheik.

Before we get into kissing feet which now people pay to do - let’s discuss Ed Farhat. What can you tell us about the Original Sheik?

Anyway - when do you first hear of Rob Van Dam or maybe Robbie V as he was called very early on in his career?

You called his debut match on WCW Saturday Night in January of 1993 against Pat Rose - not a memorable debut by any means but hey he got in right before you got out.

Do you remember anything about this?

Rob would mainly work the indies and also All Japan a lot for the next several years before landing in ECW in January of 96 and immediately makes an impression with his unique style of offense. Is he on your radar as you move into talent relations as someone the company would be interested in?

Rob is not part of the original ECW invasion in either late 96 when ECW interrupted WWF pay-per-views and tapings in the northeast or when they invaded the Manhattan Center in February of 97.

There’s some controversy around Barely Legal - ECW’s first pay-per-view - where the rumor and innuendo is that Rob was talking with WCW about joining them after being left off the original card. Did Rob reach out to the WWF at the time that you would know of?

Would you had been interested in working a deal with someone who was currently working with ECW without going through ECW?

Was there a talent agreement at that time between the WWF and ECW? Was that worked out between Vince & Paul?

How often were you in contact with Paul about talent?

Either sending them down or bringing them up type thing?

While all the rumor and innuendo surrounding Van Dam is going on - he randomly appears on the May 12th, 1997 edition of Raw in Newark, Delaware.

Observer:

Rob Van Dam pinned Jeff Hardy in 2:28 with a split-leg moonsault. Van Dam looked good in the squash as all his moves were right on, and he did a great pre-match interview with Jerry Lawler agreeing with Lawler that all the ECW wrestlers were minor leaguers except himself and called himself Mr. Monday Night.

What did you think of Lawler & Rob Van Dam together?

Van Dam instantly becomes the talk of the wrestling world - what did you think of him in his WWF debut?

The Observer would go on to report that the angle was set up by Bruce Prichard & Paul…but as far as you know, were there plans to make Rob a regular in the WWF?

Would he had been a welcome addition to the team or do you think this might’ve been too soon for him to be on such a stage?

He would work against Flash Funk and team with Lawler in a couple of matches against the Headbangers before he walked out in June supposedly over not wanting to lose to the future Road Dogg Jesse Jammes. JR - if he can’t do business you don’t want him on the team at this point right?

Quote from RVD about the 1997 WWF run:

“I walked out on them in ’97 during that invasion angle because I was there for the betterment of ECW, and that’s what Sabu and I thought. And Vince thought that I was there for a different reason and Paul kept us in the dark about that. He told us the whole time, ‘if there’s anything you don’t like, just say the word – we’ll go, we’ll walk.’

And it came a point, we’re there to put ECW on the map on their TV. Well, he did mean it. He wanted us to get heat with WWE, so he could keep us. That’s the way Paul was. And I told him, ‘dude, they wanted me to put over Armstrong, Brian Armstrong. And what’s that going to do for ECW?’

Do you think Paul was playing both sides here?

“So I got to a point where I’m like, ‘Paul, what should we do?’ Instead of giving me advice, Heyman replied ‘do you want to go?

If you want to go, just say the word.’

He put it all on me. And yeah, I can’t can’t come in and do the J-O-B. And they had been doing that, so it forced a meeting with Vince. Myself, Sabu, with Vince, and, I don’t know, Jerry Brisco was there, I think. Prichard and Paul were in the corner talking to each other, not even paying attention to the meeting. And that’s where I learned from Vince that he never would have put me on his TV if he didn’t think I was going to stay with WWE and he was going to put me in an aggressive babyface role. And I was like, ‘what?’

Like, I had no idea this was the plan and apparently, Paul, he did know, so that’s why that blew up. And then, I was there for ECW and it was like, ‘we’ve got to go,’ and, boom, we left.”

JR is this how you remember it all playing out?

Rob’s time in the WWF catapults him up the ECW card - to a top level heel before a babyface turn really cements him as THE guy in ECW - and a 2 year title reign with the ECW TV title really puts it over the top. How often did you check in on RVD and his progress while in ECW?

Was he someone you saw grow into a possible top level guy for the WWF?

Van Dam would never win the ECW title, he would break his ankle and be on the shelf before the company would fall into disarray. Did Rob ever reach out while ECW was going through its issues that you remember?

Quote from Jim Ross in early 2001 about RVD:

““We have not signed Van Dam,” Ross emphatically stated over the phone from his office in Stamford, CT. “I’ve had one conversation with his agent… one! And that was about two or three weeks ago.

I told him at that time that we had mild interest and that if they had better offers…. I didn’t want them to think that a deal was here waiting on them and that it was going to prevent Van Dam from signing a deal with somebody else. He’s not a high priority for us right now.”

“We have not offered a contract, we have not talked money, we have not signed him, obviously, and we will not sign him until we have the opportunity to meet in person and that would be based on their schedule and my schedule.”

Talk me through the phone call with his agent - and why he wasn’t a high priority at the time?

Was there still some residual heat from his run in 97?

You would go on to say:

“No one can ever deny that he has outstanding in-ring skills,” said Ross. “It’s just the fact that because of the perception of his attitude, perception being the key word, we really need to address our concerns with him in-person and he needs to be given the opportunity to explain his point of view on this perception. The perception may be wrong but until we have the chance to sit down and talk with him face to face and give him the opportunity to express himself, we’re pretty much where we are.”

How important is airing these things out - in person - to make sure everyone is on the same page and there is no issues because you really don’t want to bring someone in to hope it’s all good right?

Supposedly you had a meeting with Rob in Los Angeles in April of 2001 after the collapse of ECW takes place and the purchase of WCW happens. What do you remember of that meeting?

Was the plan for Rob to go to WCW to help build the brand back up?

Do you remember what was important for him?

Well the Invasion goes to shit after Buff vs. Booker but still Rob is signed to a 3-year deal and debuts as the original ECW invaders with Tommy Dreamer before the Alliance is formed between WCW/ECW. What was your impression on what could be done with Van Dam in the company?

Almost immediately the crowd takes to Rob and he has two great pay-per-view matches at Invasion & Summerslam ironically against the guy who he first debuted against in 97, Jeff Hardy. Perfect opponent and perfect spot in the hardcore division to get him introduced into isn’t it?

The whole Alliance is pushed as the heel invaders - but Van Dam’s babyface pops are noticeable right from the beginning. Was it a surprise to people in the back how over Rob was?

Do you think that was from his run in ECW or that he was introduced to a new audience with his different type of offense than what was going on in the WWF at the time?

Almost immediately he’s put with some of the top guys - Kane, Undertaker, Chris Jericho & the Rock. What was the reception from those guys on working with him?

What did Vince see in Rob in those first few months?

Very quickly he’s inserted into the main event scene and even works a pay-per-view main event in October - just 3 months into his run with the company - working against Steve Austin & Kurt Angle. JR - that’s very unlike the WWF to do that type of push. Do you think he could’ve been champion then?

Rob’s had a reputation over the years of being stiff and careless - did the top guys ever say any of that to you?

After No Mercy - we need to wrap up the Invasion because it’s become a disaster and Rob is part of the 10-man elimination match at the Survivor Series which sees the WWF win and the end of the Alliance - but because Rob is Hardcore Champion he can stay with the company.

The long term prospects for RVD are good and he has to be happy to have been there such a short run and working main events, right?

You said this about the reason RVD was a huge missed opportunity for the company:

“You shouldn’t allow your company to penalize a guy because of some of his social situations i.e. 420, smoking weed. Who cares? As long as you’re not smoking it before your matches and it doesn’t affect your performance or put somebody at risk. RVD, that was a huge missed opportunity.

He would’ve added at least that youthful feeling and that unique style. We missed the boat on that deal, simply because the office didn’t have the confidence that RVD was reliable in the sense of, ‘Well, you know he does smoke a little weed.’ C’mon. Shit. Yeah, we missed the boat on that one big time.”

Was it just the 420 smoking weed that would keep him from being in the mix at the top spots after this?

He’s long had a reputation of speaking his mind when he didn’t like something - did he also rub some people the wrong way?

Speaking of stiff - Van Dam and Angle work on Smackdown and Kurt gets busted open…from the Observer

“Angle was bleeding even worse than most of RVD's opponents from a kick to the nose. Apparently there are people really upset about Van Dam backstage in that because he's getting over so big with the fans, the belief is management looks the other way at him constantly hurting people. Undertaker in particular spoke up after this match.”

Was management looking the other way at this - and do you remember Taker standing up and saying we need to do something about this?

Rob would work Taker at Vengeance and drop the Hardcore title to him…do you think that was a punishment from the office to so speak?

He would win the Intercontinental title from William Regal in the opener of WrestleMania X8 before having a series of matches with Eddie Guerrero over the title. Rob was someone you could count on every night to put on a performance that the fans wouldn’t forget is that right?

Rob would be the person tapped to put Brock Lesnar over huge at the King of the Ring tournament finals - how good was Rob able to make Brock look?

Rob would be the IC - European - Hardcore - title run throughout 2002 and in fact would be the final Hardcore & European champion as the belts were merged with the IC title. It was time for some of those belts to go away wasn’t it?

Van Dam would get a World Title match against Hunter at Unforgiven where Hunter would get the win with help from Ric Flair. RVD as World Champion in late 02 could’ve done some business don’t you think?

Well that thought process ends when at Survivor Series 02 in the first ever elimination chamber - RVD hit a Five Star Frog Splash off the chambers onto Hunter and his knee goes right in his throat. This is a bad deal for both is it not - the Hunter injury and Rob hurting him.

Do you remember there being talk of Van Dam having to be depushed because of this because it seemed like it…

Van Dam & Kane are put together as a tag team not long after this…is this a message to Rob do you think?

Rob would even wrestle new champion Shawn Michaels in a disappointing match on Raw - and Rob has said in interviews that because of his attitude he didn’t think Hunter & Shawn were big fans of his. Do you ever remember hearing that?

Rob’s next big program is when Kane unmasks after a match with Triple H and chokeslams Rob as he’s back to being deranged - trying to set Rob on fire, etc. Kane would eventually defeat Rob at SummerSlam and then again on Raw in a No Holds Barred match. Do you think this program did Rob any favors?

Van Dam floats along on Raw having good matches in the mid card with Christian & Chris Jericho but does really nothing much of note. Are you feeling that the WWE missed their peak with Rob at this point?

Van Dam gets drafted to Smackdown and he’s teaming with Rey Mysterio which is a great tag team but he’s once again stuck in midcard hell. Why do you think the company was hesitant to move him up at this time - because let’s face it - SmackDown wasn’t exactly filled up with top level talent…

RVD blows out his knee and is on the shelf and while on the shelf goes to Vince McMahon and says - why don’t you have an ECW pay-per-view after the success of the ECW DVD…JR when you hear about the idea and the plan - what did you think of it?

Van Dam cuts this amazing promo at the show while on crutches and really shows something the WWE audience had never seen him do…do you think that was a turning point for Rob?

The old adage of sometimes you have to go away to come back bigger - and that’s what he does when he finally returns from his injury at the 2006 Royal Rumble. He doesn’t win but last’s until the end and the reaction to him is quite tremendous. With ECW being planned to be relaunched - it made sense for Rob to be the focal point did it not?

At WrestleMania 22 - Rob would win the Money in the Bank Ladder Match and announces he will cash it in at One Night Stand - the relaunch of ECW. Do you think it was the right move bringing ECW back?

From that night in New York - from the Torch

Torch:

(7) Rob Van Dam beat John Cena in 21:00 in an  ECW Rules match to capture the WWE Championship. As the bell rang to start the match, the crowd chanted “F––– you, Cena!” After Cena hit a series of moves early on, the crowd chanted, “You can’t wrestle.” Tazz tried to defend Cena, saying he may not be a great wrestler, but he sure can fight. Cena and RVD exchanged mid–ring punches and the crowd cheered “yea” when RVD landed a punch and “boo” when Cena landed a punch. The fans chanted “Same ole’ s–––” when Cena did his traditional offense. He followed up with a top rope splash on the outside. Joey said it wasn’t the same ole’ Cena. When RVD leaped onto the ringside barrier, Cena shoved him into the crowd. Cena held a “F––– You Cena” sign over RVD’s head then punched him.

Cena smirked at the crowd then did the You Can’t See Me routine including the Five Knuckle Shuffle. The crowd chanted, “Asshole! Assole!” Cena slowly set up for the FU and RVD slipped out. Cena caught RVD on the top rope and yanked him to the mat with a suplex. Tazz said, “Cena has arrived here!” The crowd chanted, “You still suck” and “Die, Cena, Die!”

RVD regained control then set up a table in the corner. Cena surprised RVD with a takedown and the STFU. RVD reached the bottom rope, but Cena refused to break the hold. The referee, apparently not realizing there are no rules in an ECW Rulz match, jumped onto Cena’s back and yanked him off. Cena argued then clotheslined him to the mat. Cena met RVD on the top rope and superplexed him to the mat. Smackdown referee Nick Patrick ran to the ring to replace fallen ECW ref John Finnegan to a smattering of boos. Patrick took a quick bump. Edge came out to the ring in a black jacket and motorcycle helmet. He speared Cena through a table then took off the helmet to reveal his identity. The crowd chanted, “Thank you, Edge!” Tazz said he was speechless. RVD returned to the ring and hit the Five–Star Frogsplash. He tried to wake up Patrick, but he was out cold. Paul Heyman ran to the ring and told RVD to cover Cena. RVD made the cover and Heyman counted to three.

The crowd exploded, but almost tentatively as if in anticipation of a swerve. RVD walked through the crowd and hugged his wife on the balcony.”

JR - were you at this show? What did you think of it?

Were you surprised it took 5 years for Rob to become World Champion?

Then 2 nights later on the first ECW on Sci-Fi TV show, RVD is awarded the ECW World Title to make him a dual champion.

RVD is on top for about 3 weeks including defeating Edge in a WWE Title match on June 25, 2006 at Vengeance.

Then it all goes downhill for RVD a week later…

Torch:

“Sunday night just after crossing the state border into Ohio, Rob Van Dam, with Sabu as a passenger, was pulled over by a police officer for speeding.

When the officer pulled over RVD and Sabu, he smelled marijuana in the car. He then searched the car and found 18 grams of pot (just over half an ounce) and eight Vicodin pills belonging to RVD. He also found an unused pipe commonly used for marijuana smoking and several other unidentified prescription pills that belonged to Sabu.

Both were cited for drug violations and posted bond on the scene. Both must appear in court in Ironton, Ohio on Thursday morning this week.

WWE considered RVD’s offense more serious since marijuana is a banned substance according to the official WWE Wellness Policy, therefore he was suspended for 30 days. A 30 day suspension is also the stated punishment for a first positive drug test result. Sabu was fined only $1,000 as it turned out the pills he had with him were prescribed to him for a diagnosed medical condition and the pipe was unused with no drug residue. Sabu has had drug addiction issues in the past, so WWE officials feared the worst when they heard he was found with what the officer described as “drug paraphernalia.”

At first, RVD and Sabu were concerned for their jobs, Sabu especially so because he has much less tenure and clout with the company. However, Vince McMahon has become a fan of Sabu’s style and persona. He felt he was a vital member of the ECW roster. So when the offense was relatively minor, his job was safe. In fact, McMahon approached Sabu after the ECW televised event on Tuesday night and told him he appreciated how he had been handling the situation since Sunday and looked forward to working with him in the future.

Word had gotten around that Sabu was extremely apologetic to his colleagues for what happened, realizing it shed bad light on the entire locker room, which had a rep for being out of control and drug-riddled during the original ECW’s prime years. Sabu had gone so far as to offer to take the rap for RVD, arguing that RVD had things going his way lately and it would be a shame for both of them to lose their jobs or be heavily punished for the incident. RVD refused the offer, and the police officer would likely have contradicted any attempt to shift all the blame from RVD to Sabu.”

JR - you’re not in talent relations at the time - but how do you hear about this?

What did you think of it?

Did you know it was going to be bad for Rob?

WWE.com reported the story on Monday afternoon after local papers in the region first publicized it. Two days later, they announced that RVD had been suspended for 30 days and Sabu was fined $1,000.

In two impromptu title changes, booked due to his pending suspension for a drug citation in Ohio, Rob Van Dam lost to Edge on Raw and Big Show on ECW TV. Edge regained the WWE Title, beginning his second official reign, thanks to an opportunistic cover on a KO’d RVD at the end of a three–way match on Raw also involving top contender John Cena.

The next night, Big Show defeated Rob Van Dam after Paul Heyman replaced the fallen ref and refused to count an RVD pinfall on Show after a Five-Star Frog Splash. Instead, Heyman counted RVD getting pinned after Show nailed RVD, as he was distracted by Heyman, with a chair.

Do you think the punishment was fair and right?

Would you had done the same thing - would you had advocated for less and to keep the title on him - what say you?

When RVD returned from suspension he’s only featured as a member of the ECW brand and so no longer has a main event featured role.

By WrestleMania 23 in Detroit, RVD was paired with Sabu, Tommy Dreamer and Sandman as the ECW Originals, where they defeated the New Breed in RVD’s final WrestleMania appearance.

RVD’s final appearance of his 6-year WWE run is at June 2007’s One Night Stand PPV where some might say he surprisingly defeated Randy Orton in a stretcher match.

Van Dam was said to be burnt out and needed some time away from performing full-time.

That’s not a surprise was it? I think we all saw it coming after his title run ended so quickly after the suspension…

Do you remember talking to Rob at all during this time about his career and things like that? Was he happy or disappointed how it all worked out?

Rob would make one off appearances for WWE in the next few years, and he would have a 3 year run with TNA - being a top guy and World Champion there - did you see much of Rob or talk to Rob during this time frame?

Rob would return for one last run in the WWE from 2013-2014 where the crowd reactions would be great but was always going to be a short term run. Did you catch any of it? Doesn’t seem like Rob ages does he?

In recent years his fight for legalization of cannabis has been tremendous and he was even inducted into the Hall of Fame in 2021. Well deserved was it not?

What do you think Rob’s legacy is in the business?